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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stave7119 View Post
Yeah, the slippage thing is the On Demand part of the 4X4. Not sure how but it detects the difference between the rear wheel speed and the ground speed. That is why the testing is done with all four wheels off the ground....so the rears "spin" without any forward movement of the machine.
The slippage is mostly detected by the drive ratios and tire sizes. The front drives slower than the rear so the front is basically freewheeling - when the rear starts slipping, the drive starts turning faster than the front wheels are turning, so the Hilliard clutch is activated by the armature attracted to the magnet coil and the front wheels start 'lock' and the front pulls while the rear is slipping - when the slipping on the rear stops, the front wheels again start turning faster than the drive line components and the front drive unlocks again by the action of the armature of the Hilliard clutch.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Iíd rather it just be 4x4 on or off lol thatís way too complicated


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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:45 PM
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If you just want 4x4 get a Yamaha Big Bear - they are full time FWD

2006 Trailboss 330
2002 Sportsman 90
2005 TRX400EX (FOR SALE)
2003 LT-Z400 (needs engine work & is for sale)
2004 CRF250X
1971 Triumph 650 Bonneville (has 5 original miles)
1972 Triumph 650 Bonneville (undergoing restoration)
1979 Honda CBX (6 cylinder)
1970 Kawasaki G3SS 90cc Bushmaster
1976 Suzuki RE5 Rotary (not running & FOR SALE)
1981 Kawasaki KZ305-A
1981 Suzuki GS450T (undergoing repair & will be for sale when done)
1982 Kawasaki KZ750-H (FOR SALE)
1989 Honda VT1100C
2007 Vectrix VCTX Electric Scooter
1965 Montgomery Ward 3 1/2 HP Tecumseh Mini Bike
1970 Triumph T25 250cc Trailblazer
1968 Triumph 250cc Flat Tracker

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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One front wheel not driven

As much as I love Yamaha, itís really more for their 2 strokes. If I get a different 4x4 quad itíll either be a new Scrambler 1000, or a 750 Rincon. Not sure about the new scramblers but the rincon I believe is true 4x4.


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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latebird View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stave7119 View Post
Yeah, the slippage thing is the On Demand part of the 4X4. Not sure how but it detects the difference between the rear wheel speed and the ground speed. That is why the testing is done with all four wheels off the ground....so the rears "spin" without any forward movement of the machine.


The slippage is mostly detected by the drive ratios and tire sizes. The front drives slower than the rear so the front is basically freewheeling - when the rear starts slipping, the drive starts turning faster than the front wheels are turning, so the Hilliard clutch is activated by the armature attracted to the magnet coil and the front wheels start 'lock' and the front pulls while the rear is slipping - when the slipping on the rear stops, the front wheels again start turning faster than the drive line components and the front drive unlocks again by the action of the armature of the Hilliard clutch.


Couldnít I change my change my rear sprocket sizing to make the front and rear wheels turn equally? Or am I missing something here


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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 03:36 PM
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Yep, you could mess around for months trying to get that right or just bypass the sensors and run 12v from a switched source to the 4X4 switch and down to the hubs. Then if you turn the 4x4 on, both coils will be energized. It does make the machine harder to steer though so be warned.

This system works fine and has been in existence for years. The only thing you don't want to do is engage the fronts when the rears are already spinning. Harsh engagement will break stuff.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Mine may have already had that done to it actually. I know the wiring has been messed with, but Iíve never ripped the harness apart to investigate. Iíve just been leaving well enough alone. But whether Iím crawling around on pavement or in mud, if Iíve got the 4x4 switch on, itís much more difficult to turn the bars.

Maybe you could explain why I canít really use it as 3 wheel drive? Both times I broke the left coil wire, I was spinning, so of course I continued trying to get where I was going! But I found that if I spin too fast with one front hub not working, thereís a lot of god awful clunking and banging in the front end. Based on what youíve told me so far, it shouldnít make a difference whether only one hub has load or not, because the drivetrain is constantly turning anyway, right?


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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Okay guys new problem. I got my new coil, was getting ready to put it on, when I thought Iíd test the current one again for shits and giggles. I jumped it to a my headlight wire, and I could hear the coil clicking. But it wasnít locking the hub to the axle. So I tried the side that works. Same result. Thought maybe I wasnít getting enough amps from the headlight wire, so I jumped to a car battery. Same result, both sides. So I canít manually make either hub lock, and one for sure works when Iím riding it. Now Iím thinking thereís a possibility that my coil isnít bad. I definitely donít want to replace it for no reason. Thoughts?


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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 08:21 AM
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Maybe we are missing something here............

You mentioned turning the Hilliard by hand? Maybe you are are testing incorrectly.

From the service manual:
With the Polaris All Wheel Drive System activated (AWD selected), the machine operates as a 2 wheel drive vehicle until the rear wheels lose traction. If the rear wheels lose traction the front wheel rotational speed will decrease, causing the front drive axle speed to exceed front wheel speed. Restricting the rotation of the drive clutch roller cage (2) (see Electric Hub Operation) will cause the rollers (3) to climb the ramps of the cam(5), and become squeezed between the ramps and the ring in the hub. See illustration #1. When the hub clutch assembly, wheel hub, and drive axle are engaged, the front wheels will drive and stay engaged until rear wheel traction is regained.
When traction is regained, the front wheels will overdrive the hub clutch, pushing the clutch rollers (3) toward the lower part of the cam (5), disengaging the clutch. The rollers are held in place by the spring (4). See illustration #2. The tension of this spring is critical to AWD hub operation. Always use the correct spring (refer to appropriate parts manual) and use installation tool PN 2870888.

WARNING
It is important that the front and rear axle drive ratio and tire size are not changed. Changing this ratio will cause erratic engagement, which could result in a loss of vehicle control and serious injury or death.

When AWD is selected in a forward gear, current flows through a coil of wire located in the strut housing, creating a magnetic field. An armature plate (1) coupled to the roller cage (2) is attracted to the magnetic field, and resists rotation, creating drag on the drive roller cage assembly. This causes the roller to climb the ramps of the cam, engaging the hub. NOTE: In reverse gear the override button must be pushed to deliver power to the wheel coil. Electric hub engagement offers an advantage over
mechanical systems. When the AWD button is switched off, the machine will have the steering ease of a 2 wheel drive unit; and with the switch turned on, all wheel drive will be engaged whenever the rear wheels lose traction.

Hopefully you are testing with all 4 wheels off the ground and the front wheels mounted - it is possible the front hub is worn out and needs replaced - even if all is the parts were new and known to be working correctly, a worn hub could prevent the Hilliard from locking up.

It's a pain, but you might try swapping the hubs. If the problem moves, replace the hub - if not, continue to troubleshoot the non-working side.

2006 Trailboss 330
2002 Sportsman 90
2005 TRX400EX (FOR SALE)
2003 LT-Z400 (needs engine work & is for sale)
2004 CRF250X
1971 Triumph 650 Bonneville (has 5 original miles)
1972 Triumph 650 Bonneville (undergoing restoration)
1979 Honda CBX (6 cylinder)
1970 Kawasaki G3SS 90cc Bushmaster
1976 Suzuki RE5 Rotary (not running & FOR SALE)
1981 Kawasaki KZ305-A
1981 Suzuki GS450T (undergoing repair & will be for sale when done)
1982 Kawasaki KZ750-H (FOR SALE)
1989 Honda VT1100C
2007 Vectrix VCTX Electric Scooter
1965 Montgomery Ward 3 1/2 HP Tecumseh Mini Bike
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1968 Triumph 250cc Flat Tracker

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for that excerpt from the manual. When I test the AWD by starting the engine and putting it in gear, of course I have all 4 wheels off the ground. When I have tested the coils by manually putting power and ground to then, just the front wheels are off the ground. No need to have the rear end up too as Iím not dealing with anything besides the coils themselves having power.

As far as the hub being worn, I really donít think thatís possible. My AWD worked perfectly until the wire broke, I repaired it, worked perfectly again until the wire broke. Then I decided to replace the coil as I thought there was no more wire slack to repair with. I didnít realize it was up inside the loom until it was too late. The front right wheel still works perfectly fine while riding the quad. I just wasnít able to make it work by manually putting power to it.

I really think that the coil was just bad out of the box. But since I got the same result on the manual test with both the working and non working hubs, Iím questioning if thereís anything else that could be wrong, or if I was somehow testing incorrectly. Re replacing that coil is going to be a huge pain. I sealed the hub up good, and used a lot of really good adhesive caulking to keep the wire tight to the spindle until it goes into the loom. I did that to prevent the possibility of a stick getting in there and breaking the wires again


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