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Discussion Starter #1
My Polaris has been hard to shift since new. I also owned a 2002 Sportsman 700 and it shifted so nice. Anyway, I tried checking all linkage, oiled everything and no change. I have read a few discussions about hard shifting, cold, warm, different RPM's. I was at the selling dealership and asked the long time mechanic about the hard shifting problem. He said "Oh, there was a service bulletin on my model about that exact problem, but mine was out of the 6 month warranty". I was so pissed I have never gone back to that dealership for anything since. Does anyone know what the "Service Bulletin" for the 2005 Sportsman 800 EFI was, and what the fix was. I realize it is 15 years old, but I take really good care of my equipment, and other than shifting hard, it has no other problems.
 

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Well - there were no recalls and I didn't find any service bulletins on it either - I guess I can't be of help on this one
 

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Well - there were no recalls and I didn't find any service bulletins on it either - I guess I can't be of help on this one
Thanks,
I have contacted Polaris to see if they have any records. I checked everywhere I could and nothing. It may have been some kind of factory setup----screw-up and just notified the Dealerships. Ticked me off that there was a problem and the dealer didn't let me know. Maybe they just waited until complaints then fixed them. Not the way I run my 40 year old business.
I just received a reply from Polaris with a new inquiry number...will let you know if I find out anything.
 

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Most times its just clutch alignment causing the belt to drag against one side of the primary thus causing the secondary to spin too fast at idle if idle speed and everything else is in good working order. If its been hard to shift since new that's probably what it is. Pull the cover and watch it to see if that's the issue.
Polaris also played around with different clutches and belts on the 06 and 07 after the 800's introduction in 05. I guess they where trying to get it right and fine tuning.
Get the cover off and watch it and let me know what you see and we'll try to get you adjusted.
 

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Unlike recalls, service bulletins are just dealer info - when customers complain about a situation repeatedly and a dealer finds the cause of the complaint, they notify the manufacturer who investigates the complaint and if the dealers mechanics are right about a remedy to a common complaint, the manufacturer issues a service bulletin to inform other dealers of the remedy for a specific complaint. Unlike recalls, service bulletins are not repairs that are covered by the manufacturer, but are simply addressed on a case by case basis. Some dealers may service the vehicle as a matter of customer relations. Sometimes the information in the bulletin does not pertain to the vehicle in question.

When I worked in a Kawasaki franchise, we would get service bulletins that simply addressed an easier or alternate way to effect a repair. One service bulletin I was responsible for generating addressed a 'knock' in the G5 100cc street bike. A customer brought an almost new (less than a month old) bike in for a loose rod. I took the top end off the engine and checked the rod - there was no problem - I rotated the crankshaft about 100 times to see if there was a certain spot where the rod got loose - nada - I put the cylinder back on and rotated the engine again about 100 times - a ring was not catching in a port and the piston had proper clearance - I put the head on with no head gasket and rotated the engine to see if the piston was hitting the head - nope - could not find a problem with the engine - the shop owner had me install a new piston, rings piston pin bearing, piston pin and new gaskets - I kicked the engine over with no spark plug in it and it was fine - I put the plug in and kicked it over - it started on the first kick and clunk, clunk, clunk - it had the rod knocking. The shop owner had me put a new crankshaft in it - low and behold, it still knocked. Now I was determined to find the source of the noise and the little 100 could be started with a belt wrapped around the flywheel, so I removed the clutch cover and the clutch - I put the carb on the rotary valve cover spigot (every engine has it own quirks and the G5 had this one), spun the flywheel with my belt - the engine started and the knock was not there, so the noise must be in the transmission. I installed the clutch and restarted the engine - not only did it knock again, but it was louder. I shut the motor off and with the spark plug out turned the engine very slowly by hand and found a very slight resistance to rotation at a certain spot, but it required about 6 rotations of the crankshaft to find it. The problem turned out to be a chip of aluminum wedged in the bottom between two teeth on the clutch gear. With the engine running, each time the chip contacted the crankshaft pinion gear it would clunk. I used a screwdriver to dislodge the chip and when assembled the knock was gone. We had about 4 G5's come in with the same problem. We notified Kawasaki and a service bulletin was issued informing dealers of the complaint and the remedy. Our dealership just took care of the problem and just charged the customer for an oil change.

Your hard shifting may be exactly what polman described and the dealer (at their discretion) may or may not have worked on it for free, but the service bulletin would only disclose what other dealers or the factory was doing to alleviate the complaint.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Most times its just clutch alignment causing the belt to drag against one side of the primary thus causing the secondary to spin too fast at idle if idle speed and everything else is in good working order. If its been hard to shift since new that's probably what it is. Pull the cover and watch it to see if that's the issue.
Polaris also played around with different clutches and belts on the 06 and 07 after the 800's introduction in 05. I guess they where trying to get it right and fine tuning.
Get the cover off and watch it and let me know what you see and we'll try to get you adjusted.
Thanks Polman,
339.4 hours
1,882 miles on it
I have had the cover off, have a clutch alignment tool, it was fine as far as alignment. Didn't help. I checked the rpm's today.
At cold start, low was 1,230 - highest 1,270. Wandered around mostly 1,250 - 1,260. After warmed up, lowest was 1,170 - highest 1,200.
It shifts fine with engine off through all gears. I tried shifting with my foot on the floor brake through P-R-N-L-H. While idling, it does jump when shifting from Park into Reverse and other also from Neutral to others. Because it has done this since new and really hasn't changed. The belt must be dragging for some reason. I think there is something going on with something else. I have read about one way rollers, and shims. I am going to drop the idle speed down a tiny bit, to 1,150+/-100 and see if that helps. Then pull the cover and check belt, shims etc. I do have a new OEM belt. But don't think that will solve the problem.
 

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Many times its as simple as adding or removing shim washers behind the secondary to get the belt running in the center of the primary and that will alleviate the hard-shift issue.
 

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does the machine have EBS? may be the one way bearing!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Unlike recalls, service bulletins are just dealer info - when customers complain about a situation repeatedly and a dealer finds the cause of the complaint, they notify the manufacturer who investigates the complaint and if the dealers mechanics are right about a remedy to a common complaint, the manufacturer issues a service bulletin to inform other dealers of the remedy for a specific complaint. Unlike recalls, service bulletins are not repairs that are covered by the manufacturer, but are simply addressed on a case by case basis. Some dealers may service the vehicle as a matter of customer relations. Sometimes the information in the bulletin does not pertain to the vehicle in question.

When I worked in a Kawasaki franchise, we would get service bulletins that simply addressed an easier or alternate way to effect a repair. One service bulletin I was responsible for generating addressed a 'knock' in the G5 100cc street bike. A customer brought an almost new (less than a month old) bike in for a loose rod. I took the top end off the engine and checked the rod - there was no problem - I rotated the crankshaft about 100 times to see if there was a certain spot where the rod got loose - nada - I put the cylinder back on and rotated the engine again about 100 times - a ring was not catching in a port and the piston had proper clearance - I put the head on with no head gasket and rotated the engine to see if the piston was hitting the head - nope - could not find a problem with the engine - the shop owner had me install a new piston, rings piston pin bearing, piston pin and new gaskets - I kicked the engine over with no spark plug in it and it was fine - I put the plug in and kicked it over - it started on the first kick and clunk, clunk, clunk - it had the rod knocking. The shop owner had me put a new crankshaft in it - low and behold, it still knocked. Now I was determined to find the source of the noise and the little 100 could be started with a belt wrapped around the flywheel, so I removed the clutch cover and the clutch - I put the carb on the rotary valve cover spigot (every engine has it own quirks and the G5 had this one), spun the flywheel with my belt - the engine started and the knock was not there, so the noise must be in the transmission. I installed the clutch and restarted the engine - not only did it knock again, but it was louder. I shut the motor off and with the spark plug out turned the engine very slowly by hand and found a very slight resistance to rotation at a certain spot, but it required about 6 rotations of the crankshaft to find it. The problem turned out to be a chip of aluminum wedged in the bottom between two teeth on the clutch gear. With the engine running, each time the chip contacted the crankshaft pinion gear it would clunk. I used a screwdriver to dislodge the chip and when assembled the knock was gone. We had about 4 G5's come in with the same problem. We notified Kawasaki and a service bulletin was issued informing dealers of the complaint and the remedy. Our dealership just took care of the problem and just charged the customer for an oil change.

Your hard shifting may be exactly what polman described and the dealer (at their discretion) may or may not have worked on it for free, but the service bulletin would only disclose what other dealers or the factory was doing to alleviate the complaint.
Thanks for your input. I have been doing really tough service for two of the largest water heater manufacturers. I have worked with new product development and with engineers on their high dollar water heaters. I fully understand what you are explaining above. Nice to hear there are still guys out there like yourself, that do the right thing for the customers. I have always treated customers like I want to be treated. Being a detective can be fun at times, especially with the full support of the factory to take care of the problem. My problem with the dealership's mechanic, and I knew him for quite a few years, was the attitude that since it was about 6 months out of the warranty they were not willing to fix my Polaris. I should have pressed the owner, but I was not impressed with the comment. I figured I could fix it myself. Believe me, I have seen so many problems with some mechanics that claim they know what they are doing and don't. I did receive a reply from Polaris that they were not aware of a Service Bulletin on my Polaris. In these days with computers, I can go back 30 years and pull up every service call and check the detailed work performed. Polaris should also be able to do the same thing. Maybe just too lazy to go the extra step to make a long time customer happy. I sure hope my new Polaris General doesn't have a problem....so far so good.
 

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What I'm talking about is RUN the machine with the cover off and watch the belt in the primary closely with a bright light. Rev it up high a few times and let idle down then see if it runs against on side or the other.
If you can't put the toe of your boot against the secondary at idle and stop it from turning the belt is dragging too much and pulling on the secondary so much that the tranny won't shift easily.
The other things that can cause it are the PTFE washers #2 and the spacer #3 being worn causing too little clearance on the belt sides or the one-way bearing #1 can also get dry and drag. You've got enough hours/miles that your clutches are about due for a good service/refresh anyway.
136827
 

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Discussion Starter #13
does the machine have EBS? may be the one way bearing!!!!
Yes it has EBS, Would the one way bearing be a problem from day one? Originally I thought, well it was probably just a new kid at the factory that didn't know how to use the alignment tool. But after learning from the dealer's mechanic, there was a problem with them, and when I checked the alignment, was fine, I kind of just decided to live with it. Now I have a bad right shoulder, and makes it hard to shift with my left hand. One of the reasons I told my wife I need a new General with power steering and comfy seat. Can drive with one hand. At this point she still believes me.:sneaky:
 

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Forget the alignment tool. I've learned over the years and many different clutches on many different machines to use the tool ONLY for initial alignment when installing an engine/tranny in the frame. Then I "eyeball" where the belt tracks in the clutches while running and adjust shims to get it centered where I want it. Get it right and your secondary may not even turn at idle or if it does it'll be very slow and easily stopped with your hand (carefull!) or foot. Then your tranny will shift like butta!! 😉
 

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Oh, and for that bad shoulder... install a Superatv powersteering unit on that 800 and you can steer it with two fingers. Put one one my 06 several years ago and I have to say its the BEST money I ever spent on the machine.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What I'm talking about is RUN the machine with the cover off and watch the belt in the primary closely with a bright light. Rev it up high a few times and let idle down then see if it runs against on side or the other.
If you can't put the toe of your boot against the secondary at idle and stop it from turning the belt is dragging too much and pulling on the secondary so much that the tranny won't shift easily.
The other things that can cause it are the PTFE washers #2 and the spacer #3 being worn causing too little clearance on the belt sides or the one-way bearing #1 can also get dry and drag. You've got enough hours/miles that your clutches are about due for a good service/refresh anyway.
View attachment 136827
Thanks, I will be checking these
Forget the alignment tool. I've learned over the years and many different clutches on many different machines to use the tool ONLY for initial alignment when installing an engine/tranny in the frame. Then I "eyeball" where the belt tracks in the clutches while running and adjust shims to get it centered where I want it. Get it right and your secondary may not even turn at idle or if it does it'll be very slow and easily stopped with your hand (carefull!) or foot. Then your tranny will shift like butta!! 😉
I agree, that is exactly what I did on my 2002 Sportsman 700. I was involved in a pretty bad auto accident in 2005. My friend's F-350 rolled over my 2002. I totally rebuilt it. After 2 weeks without my 2002, I bought the 2005. I will attach a photo of the flattened 2002. I think I had close to $3,500.00 just in parts to put it back together. Now 15 years later, I talked my long time friend that flattened my 2002, into buying a 2018 Polaris General. After seeing how nice it was, I did the same thing and bought a 2019. He talked me into selling the 700 to him for his 50 year old son. He is having a blast with it. His son, he is kinda like my adopted son, asked how did dad talk you into selling the 700, we have been trying to get you to let it go for over 10 years..I said well I don't really need 2 Polaris quads, 1 Polaris General, cab-over camper, and 35' Toy Hauler, but it is fun to be ready for whatever comes up.
 

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one way bearing could certainly be bad from the start. sounds like you need to replace it!!!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
What I'm talking about is RUN the machine with the cover off and watch the belt in the primary closely with a bright light. Rev it up high a few times and let idle down then see if it runs against on side or the other.
If you can't put the toe of your boot against the secondary at idle and stop it from turning the belt is dragging too much and pulling on the secondary so much that the tranny won't shift easily.
The other things that can cause it are the PTFE washers #2 and the spacer #3 being worn causing too little clearance on the belt sides or the one-way bearing #1 can also get dry and drag. You've got enough hours/miles that your clutches are about due for a good service/refresh anyway.
View attachment 136827
Thanks, I will be checking these
Forget the alignment tool. I've learned over the years and many different clutches on many different machines to use the tool ONLY for initial alignment when installing an engine/tranny in the frame. Then I "eyeball" where the belt tracks in the clutches while running and adjust shims to get it centered where I want it. Get it right and your secondary may not even turn at idle or if it does it'll be very slow and easily stopped with your hand (carefull!) or foot. Then your tranny will shift like butta!! 😉
I agree, that is exactly what I did on my 2002 Sportsman 700. I was involved in a pretty bad auto accident in 2005. My friend's F-350 rolled over my 2002. I totally rebuilt it. After 2 weeks without my 2002, I bought the 2005. I will attach a photo of the flattened 2002. I think I had close to $3,500.00 just in parts to put it back together. Now 15 years later, I talked my long time friend that flattened my 2002, into buying a 2018 Polaris General. After seeing how nice it was, I did the same thing and bought a 2019. He talked me into selling the 700 to him for his 50 year old son. He is having a blast with it. His son, he is kinda like my adopted son, asked how did dad talk you into selling the 700, we have been trying to get you to let it go for over 10 years..I said well I don't really need 2 Polaris quads, 1 Polaris General, cab-over camper, and 35' Toy Hauler, but it is fun to be ready for whatever comes up.
one way bearing could certainly be bad from the start. sounds like you need to replace it!!!!!!!!!
one way bearing could certainly be bad from the start. sounds like you need to replace it!!!!!!!!!
Thanks everyone, I will pull the cover and probably the clutch and check the one way bearing and spacers...I read somewhere, that guys were replacing the one way bearing with a non-one way bearing...That may have been on the Polaris General or Rzr site. I don't like to change from stock setups. Thinking back, when new if it had been as hard to shift then as it is now, I would have taken it back right away...I was busy rebuilding my squashed 700 at the time. One unrelated comment.....if you look at the photo of the squashed 700, the large dent on the passenger side of the truck bed had a perfect imprint of the handle bars in it. The Nevada Highway Patrol guy said I was lucky we didn't roll over my quad at the window, it probably would have taken me out.
 

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if you substitute the one way bearing for a two way bearing youll lose ebs.
 
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