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So this is what happened to me. I was out riding through mud and using the winch alot and towards the end of our ride, my machine just died while idling and using the winch. when i went to restart it, the machine would crank fine but i had to hold open the throttle to get it to kick over. it would run for 30 seconds then die again. the 3rd time this happened i got a check engine light but i shut the key off so i couldn't grab the code. I was towed home and let it sit overnight. When I went to start it the next day it was running fine.

What do you guys think. After reading some threads, I think it could be that I had low battery or im having fuel pump issues.

Just FYI, 6mo ago i had the TPS sensor replaced so i thought that could have been it also.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
 

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So this is what happened to me. I was out riding through mud and using the winch alot and towards the end of our ride, my machine just died while idling and using the winch. when i went to restart it, the machine would crank fine but i had to hold open the throttle to get it to kick over. it would run for 30 seconds then die again. the 3rd time this happened i got a check engine light but i shut the key off so i couldn't grab the code. I was towed home and let it sit overnight. When I went to start it the next day it was running fine.

What do you guys think. After reading some threads, I think it could be that I had low battery or im having fuel pump issues.

Just FYI, 6mo ago i had the TPS sensor replaced so i thought that could have been it also.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Really new to this so take that in mind. Just bought a 2018 570. Found out pretty fast a small design flaw. The drain plug in the air box is a loose fit grommet style. Hit water at speed and the vacuum inside the box will start sucking water through the plug.
Sister just bought a 2017. I suspect the same thing. Was telling the dealer about my issue and he scoffed at the idea. Opened the air box on this 2017 with 200 miles on it and there’s dry mud silt in the bottom of the box. He says it came through the factory snorkel. I show him the snorkel which is still factory clean and ask him how all that mud made it’s way through that snorkel without getting it dirty ;)
Look in your air box. It’ll drain water overnight but you’ll see mud. Maybe,,,,,,

I will say that once I sucked water mine ran at an idle but would bog with any throttle as it sucked the water up from the bottom. Not quite what you experienced.
I’d be interested in what you find in that box.
 

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So this is what happened to me. I was out riding through mud and using the winch alot and towards the end of our ride, my machine just died while idling and using the winch. when i went to restart it, the machine would crank fine but i had to hold open the throttle to get it to kick over. it would run for 30 seconds then die again. the 3rd time this happened i got a check engine light but i shut the key off so i couldn't grab the code. I was towed home and let it sit overnight. When I went to start it the next day it was running fine.

What do you guys think. After reading some threads, I think it could be that I had low battery or im having fuel pump issues.

Just FYI, 6mo ago i had the TPS sensor replaced so i thought that could have been it also.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Yes - winches are a high current draw on the battery - the charging system puts out about 2 amps (max at about 3000 rpm) and the winch uses about 10 amps under load maybe 3 amps no load - if the engine is idling, there is essentially nothing from the charging system getting back to the battery - if the lights are on and the winch is being used, the problem will happen in less time - once the battery voltage drops to about 9 volts, the ignition fails to fire - the starter motor will crank the engine with 9 volts, but the ignition will not fire - a good battery will rebuild it's charge when the drain is removed - so after setting overnight, the battery may have recharged sufficiently to start the engine, but the battery is still at a low state of charge.

You need to put a 1.25 amp (or less) output automatic battery charger on the battery and bring it back to a full charge or the battery will be permanently damaged.

Whenever the winch is used, you should externally charge the battery and not rely on the vehicle's charging system to replenish the battery's charge.

The charging system of most motorcycles and ATV's is designed to maintain the charge of the battery not to charge the battery. The charging system may be damaged if you try to charge a battery from 10.5 volts or lower to a full 12.8 volts.

From the Battery University:
When a lead acid battery discharges to 1.75V/cell, roughly 95 percent of the energy is spent, and the voltage would drop rapidly if the discharge were to continue. To protect the battery from over-discharging, most devices prevent operation beyond the specified end-of-discharge voltage.

When removing the load after discharge, the voltage of a healthy battery gradually recovers and rises towards the nominal voltage. Differences in the affinity of metals in the electrodes produce this voltage potential even when the battery is empty. A parasitic load or high self-discharge prevents voltage recovery.

A high load current, as would be the case when drilling through concrete with a power tool, lowers the battery voltage and the end-of-discharge voltage threshold is often set lower to prevent premature cutoff. The cutoff voltage should also be lowered when discharging at very cold temperatures, as the battery voltage drops and the internal battery resistance rises.

From Yuasa (a leading supplier of batteries installed by OEM manufacturers):
When using a voltmeter, the battery terminal voltage should read at least 12.6 volts. If your voltage is below this or you’ve adjusted the electrolyte levels, a boost charge is required. Charge the battery in a well ventilated area away from kids and pets. The variety of chargers you can use to endless but it is recommended that you use an automatic taper type charger specifically designed for Powersports batteries. Don’t use a high current or fast charger for the boost charge unless you are familiar with their operation or permanent damage can occur to the battery.

When servicing an AGM style battery, you obviously don’t need to inspect the electrolyte levels since the battery is permanently sealed and must never be opened. The one feature to note about the AGM battery is the battery terminal voltage. The full charge voltage should read about 12.8 volts. These batteries have a slightly different electrolyte, which influences the terminal voltage.

To insure maximum performance and service life for your battery, we recommended that you use either the Yuasa 1 Amp or 1,000 mA Automatic Battery Charger for battery maintenance. Both chargers deliver Mistake-Proof Technology to properly charge your battery and both are designed to switch to a float mode once the battery has reached a full state of charge and maintain it there. This feature allows you to attach the charger to your battery for an extended period of time without concern of an overcharged or discharged battery.

It’s important to remember, even with the proper care and maintenance of your battery, they will eventually wear out. As with any of the parts on your vehicle, it’s usually easier and more convenient to replace them before they fail unexpectedly. With this in mind, you may want to simply replace the battery every few years with a new one.

I hope you find this useful and that it possibly answers your question of why it died unexpectedly one day and ran fine the next.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So this is what happened to me. I was out riding through mud and using the winch alot and towards the end of our ride, my machine just died while idling and using the winch. when i went to restart it, the machine would crank fine but i had to hold open the throttle to get it to kick over. it would run for 30 seconds then die again. the 3rd time this happened i got a check engine light but i shut the key off so i couldn't grab the code. I was towed home and let it sit overnight. When I went to start it the next day it was running fine.

What do you guys think. After reading some threads, I think it could be that I had low battery or im having fuel pump issues.

Just FYI, 6mo ago i had the TPS sensor replaced so i thought that could have been it also.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Yes - winches are a high current draw on the battery - the charging system puts out about 2 amps (max at about 3000 rpm) and the winch uses about 10 amps under load maybe 3 amps no load - if the engine is idling, there is essentially nothing from the charging system getting back to the battery - if the lights are on and the winch is being used, the problem will happen in less time - once the battery voltage drops to about 9 volts, the ignition fails to fire - the starter motor will crank the engine with 9 volts, but the ignition will not fire - a good battery will rebuild it's charge when the drain is removed - so after setting overnight, the battery may have recharged sufficiently to start the engine, but the battery is still at a low state of charge.

You need to put a 1.25 amp (or less) output automatic battery charger on the battery and bring it back to a full charge or the battery will be permanently damaged.

Whenever the winch is used, you should externally charge the battery and not rely on the vehicle's charging system to replenish the battery's charge.

The charging system of most motorcycles and ATV's is designed to maintain the charge of the battery not to charge the battery. The charging system may be damaged if you try to charge a battery from 10.5 volts or lower to a full 12.8 volts.

From the Battery University:
When a lead acid battery discharges to 1.75V/cell, roughly 95 percent of the energy is spent, and the voltage would drop rapidly if the discharge were to continue. To protect the battery from over-discharging, most devices prevent operation beyond the specified end-of-discharge voltage.

When removing the load after discharge, the voltage of a healthy battery gradually recovers and rises towards the nominal voltage. Differences in the affinity of metals in the electrodes produce this voltage potential even when the battery is empty. A parasitic load or high self-discharge prevents voltage recovery.

A high load current, as would be the case when drilling through concrete with a power tool, lowers the battery voltage and the end-of-discharge voltage threshold is often set lower to prevent premature cutoff. The cutoff voltage should also be lowered when discharging at very cold temperatures, as the battery voltage drops and the internal battery resistance rises.

From Yuasa (a leading supplier of batteries installed by OEM manufacturers):
When using a voltmeter, the battery terminal voltage should read at least 12.6 volts. If your voltage is below this or you’ve adjusted the electrolyte levels, a boost charge is required. Charge the battery in a well ventilated area away from kids and pets. The variety of chargers you can use to endless but it is recommended that you use an automatic taper type charger specifically designed for Powersports batteries. Don’t use a high current or fast charger for the boost charge unless you are familiar with their operation or permanent damage can occur to the battery.

When servicing an AGM style battery, you obviously don’t need to inspect the electrolyte levels since the battery is permanently sealed and must never be opened. The one feature to note about the AGM battery is the battery terminal voltage. The full charge voltage should read about 12.8 volts. These batteries have a slightly different electrolyte, which influences the terminal voltage.

To insure maximum performance and service life for your battery, we recommended that you use either the Yuasa 1 Amp or 1,000 mA Automatic Battery Charger for battery maintenance. Both chargers deliver Mistake-Proof Technology to properly charge your battery and both are designed to switch to a float mode once the battery has reached a full state of charge and maintain it there. This feature allows you to attach the charger to your battery for an extended period of time without concern of an overcharged or discharged battery.

It’s important to remember, even with the proper care and maintenance of your battery, they will eventually wear out. As with any of the parts on your vehicle, it’s usually easier and more convenient to replace them before they fail unexpectedly. With this in mind, you may want to simply replace the battery every few years with a new one.

I hope you find this useful and that it possibly answers your question of why it died unexpectedly one day and ran fine the next.


Wow thank you for the detailed reply. That was the only thing I wasn’t sure about was if the starter motor would crank below the voltage threshold for the ignition. I really appreciate the advice. We do a lot of aggressive riding so I’ll probably buy a heavier duty battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So this is what happened to me. I was out riding through mud and using the winch alot and towards the end of our ride, my machine just died while idling and using the winch. when i went to restart it, the machine would crank fine but i had to hold open the throttle to get it to kick over. it would run for 30 seconds then die again. the 3rd time this happened i got a check engine light but i shut the key off so i couldn't grab the code. I was towed home and let it sit overnight. When I went to start it the next day it was running fine.

What do you guys think. After reading some threads, I think it could be that I had low battery or im having fuel pump issues.

Just FYI, 6mo ago i had the TPS sensor replaced so i thought that could have been it also.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Really new to this so take that in mind. Just bought a 2018 570. Found out pretty fast a small design flaw. The drain plug in the air box is a loose fit grommet style. Hit water at speed and the vacuum inside the box will start sucking water through the plug.
Sister just bought a 2017. I suspect the same thing. Was telling the dealer about my issue and he scoffed at the idea. Opened the air box on this 2017 with 200 miles on it and there’s dry mud silt in the bottom of the box. He says it came through the factory snorkel. I show him the snorkel which is still factory clean and ask him how all that mud made it’s way through that snorkel without getting it dirty ;)
Look in your air box. It’ll drain water overnight but you’ll see mud. Maybe,,,,,,

I will say that once I sucked water mine ran at an idle but would bog with any throttle as it sucked the water up from the bottom. Not quite what you experienced.
I’d be interested in what you find in that box.
Thanks for the heads up man. I’ll pull it apart and see if there is any residue.
 

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the numbers aren't correct
the alternator on the 570 has around 500 Watts at 3000 rpm divided by 14 is 35 Amp.
A 2000 pound winch has 1 HP divided by 0.75 means the winch draws in full power 750 Watts or 53 Amp.
 

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Numbers do lie sometimes if not manipulated correctly.

The alternator may be capable of 35 amps, but what size wire is needed to supply 30 amps to a device? The winch probably has 10 gauge wire (rated at 30 amps), the starter probably has 6 gauge wire (rated at 45 amps) while the rec/reg has at most a 14 gauge wire (more likely a 16 gauge wire) supplying 14.8 volts to the battery.

Wire is not sized for the voltage, but the amperage - the wire from the rec/reg to the battery supplies the current to charge the battery while the wire from the battery to the key switch supplies the current to operate the lights, instruments and any other accessories might be attached to the vehicle. How much current can the charging system supply to the battery without burning up the wire? Maybe 10 amps? And as the wire heats, the resistance goes up meaning the actual current the wire delivers is reduced.

But still, if the winch draws 20 amps and the charging system supplies 10 amps at 3000 rpm - how much of the amperage supplied by the charging system is going to the battery? Zero - the battery is operating at a loss! As the battery voltage goes down the amperage draw goes up. So if the battery is supplying 10 amps at 12 volts through a load (i.e. an electric motor), the load is consuming 120 watts, the same 120 watt load at 10 volts is now drawing 12 amps. As the voltage drops and the current goes up and the load gets hot. Everyone knows if you run a 12 volt motor on 6 volts it will burn up. Likewise if you run a 6 volt motor on 12 volts it will burn up. The difference is a 12 volt motor on 6 volts runs slower and longer before it burns up and a 6 volt motor on 12 volts runs faster, but burns out quickly.

The charging system is typically supplying 2 volts to the battery ( 14.8 minus the 12.6 of a fully charged battery) at approximately 1 amp - the voltage has to exceed the battery voltage to begin the charging process and the current is limited by the internal resistance of the battery, wiring, wiring connectors and the design of the internal components of the rec/reg. The diodes in the typical rectifier of an ATV are rated at about 2 watts. Therefore a typical rec/reg of an ATV is capable of about 2 amps of continuous current.

If the battery voltage drops to 10 volts, now the charging system becomes overloaded just trying to charge the battery. It now supplies 4 volts at 2 amps which generates 8 watts of heat in charging system components that are designed to handle 2 watts. Starting to see a problem here?

My numbers are not finite or 100% accurate - they are for an example only, but should be close enough to get the point across. What the alternator is rated at and what the actual output is varies with engine speed, load, temperature, age, magnet strength, wiring connection quality, wire used, wire insulation and a variety of other factors, but...........

A winch is a heavy draw on an electrical system not designed for continuous high current draw or extended low speed operation. With the engine idling and the lights on, the battery is operating at a loss. Start using a winch and the loss is greater. You will get more winch operation time by shutting off the lights and engine or at least set the idle up to about 2500 rpm.
 
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