Polaris ATV Forum banner

21 - 40 of 49 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,595 Posts
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
Good idea. I have a motorcycle jack... it'll take all 4 wheels off the ground. I may not be able to do this for a couple of days. I will report back unless someone does a similar trial before me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
That will work for engagement. My problem is they won’t disengage while in AWD. On demand is not working. Running this scenario through my head I’m not coming up with any test for that. The sensor will always detect rears spinning and engage front wether I have 4 wheels lifted or just two.

I’m seriously curious how one can’t tell if the fronts are engaged driving around a parking lot? Didn’t you ever drive a four wheel truck on pavement and forget to disengage? It’s quite noticeable once you cut the wheel.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,595 Posts
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
That will work for engagement. My problem is they won’t disengage while in AWD. On demand is not working. Running this scenario through my head I’m not coming up with any test for that. The sensor will always detect rears spinning and engage front wether I have 4 wheels lifted or just two.

I’m seriously curious how one can’t tell if the fronts are engaged driving around a parking lot? Didn’t you ever drive a four wheel truck on pavement and forget to disengage? It’s quite noticeable once you cut the wheel.
Uhh, what "sensor" are you talking about? I just told you how to test it. It wasn't an "idea" I just came up with. That's how you check to see if the AWD works like its supposed to. But if that magical "sensor" is gonna be a problem I guess you'll just need to drive it around the parking lot. :pat:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
That will work for engagement. My problem is they won’t disengage while in AWD. On demand is not working. Running this scenario through my head I’m not coming up with any test for that. The sensor will always detect rears spinning and engage front wether I have 4 wheels lifted or just two.

I’m seriously curious how one can’t tell if the fronts are engaged driving around a parking lot? Didn’t you ever drive a four wheel truck on pavement and forget to disengage? It’s quite noticeable once you cut the wheel.
Uhh, what "sensor" are you talking about? I just told you how to test it. It wasn't an "idea" I just came up with. That's how you check to see if the AWD works like its supposed to. But if that magical "sensor" is gonna be a problem I guess you'll just need to drive it around the parking lot. :pat:
Fine. I may not know exactly what makes this stuff work. Point for you.
Answer me this tho. In AWD anytime the rears spin faster than the fronts the fronts engage? Correct?
Putting it on blocks will always make the fronts engage if the AWD is functioning correctly. My problem is they will not disengage. I need a test for disengagement. Can’t think of any scenario where spinning the rear tires will prove disengagement. Your asking me to test the opposite function.

I suppose I could raise the front while idling in AWD and see if the fronts can be spun. That may tell me something but I think there’s already a lot of built in resistance to moving in an atv already. Comparatively test mine also perhaps.

Not trying to be pissy but this is the third or fourth time someone has suggested you cannot tell if the fronts are engaged while driving on tar. I find that shockingly naive. If there was no difference we never would have evolved into an on demand feature. 4x4 full lock on everything would be a lot cheaper to produce.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. If I were to turn as tight a radius as the machine is capable of on tar I think something in the front would snap. That’s the type of force I’m feeling. Shift to 2x4 and it goes away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
That will work for engagement. My problem is they won’t disengage while in AWD. On demand is not working. Running this scenario through my head I’m not coming up with any test for that. The sensor will always detect rears spinning and engage front wether I have 4 wheels lifted or just two.

I’m seriously curious how one can’t tell if the fronts are engaged driving around a parking lot? Didn’t you ever drive a four wheel truck on pavement and forget to disengage? It’s quite noticeable once you cut the wheel.
Uhh, what "sensor" are you talking about? I just told you how to test it. It wasn't an "idea" I just came up with. That's how you check to see if the AWD works like its supposed to. But if that magical "sensor" is gonna be a problem I guess you'll just need to drive it around the parking lot. :pat:
Fine. I may not know exactly what makes this stuff work. Point for you.
Answer me this tho. In AWD anytime the rears spin faster than the fronts the fronts engage? Correct?
Putting it on blocks will always make the fronts engage if the AWD is functioning correctly. My problem is they will not disengage. I need a test for disengagement. Can’t think of any scenario where spinning the rear tires will prove disengagement. Your asking me to test the opposite function.

I suppose I could raise the front while idling in AWD and see if the fronts can be spun. That may tell me something but I think there’s already a lot of built in resistance to moving in an atv already. Comparatively test mine also perhaps.

Not trying to be pissy but this is the third or fourth time someone has suggested you cannot tell if the fronts are engaged while driving on tar. I find that shockingly naive. If there was no difference we never would have evolved into an on demand feature. 4x4 full lock on everything would be a lot cheaper to produce.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. If I were to turn as tight a radius as the machine is capable of on tar I think something in the front would snap. That’s the type of force I’m feeling. Shift to 2x4 and it goes away.
Well doesn’t seem like you want to listen to Polman, A guy that really knows this stuff, so I would teach your sister how to use the 4x4 button, you are operating an off road vehicle on asphalt and you want to know what’s wrong. Change the diff fluid, put some miles on it and see if the problem goes away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,469 Posts
duplicate, please delete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,469 Posts
you shouldn't see anything on the gauges unless there is a fault.
No. There is a drive wheel indicator on the display - near the bottom left. It's there all the time - no faults. The OP said he was looking at his indicator and that it had changed to AWD as soon as he depressed the throttle. I want to try some experiments with this. He may be on to something. Perhaps the close ratio AWD is not working as intended on many of the 2017 SPs? Who knows.
Mine just has all 4 lit up when in AWD, and nothing when in 2wd. but I don't have the full digital display.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jo191145

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
Uhh, what "sensor" are you talking about? I just told you how to test it. It wasn't an "idea" I just came up with. That's how you check to see if the AWD works like its supposed to. But if that magical "sensor" is gonna be a problem I guess you'll just need to drive it around the parking lot. :pat:
Fine. I may not know exactly what makes this stuff work. Point for you.
Answer me this tho. In AWD anytime the rears spin faster than the fronts the fronts engage? Correct?
Putting it on blocks will always make the fronts engage if the AWD is functioning correctly. My problem is they will not disengage. I need a test for disengagement. Can’t think of any scenario where spinning the rear tires will prove disengagement. Your asking me to test the opposite function.

I suppose I could raise the front while idling in AWD and see if the fronts can be spun. That may tell me something but I think there’s already a lot of built in resistance to moving in an atv already. Comparatively test mine also perhaps.

Not trying to be pissy but this is the third or fourth time someone has suggested you cannot tell if the fronts are engaged while driving on tar. I find that shockingly naive. If there was no difference we never would have evolved into an on demand feature. 4x4 full lock on everything would be a lot cheaper to produce.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. If I were to turn as tight a radius as the machine is capable of on tar I think something in the front would snap. That’s the type of force I’m feeling. Shift to 2x4 and it goes away.
Well doesn’t seem like you want to listen to Polman, A guy that really knows this stuff, so I would teach your sister how to use the 4x4 button, you are operating an off road vehicle on asphalt and you want to know what’s wrong. Change the diff fluid, put some miles on it and see if the problem goes away.
I have been listening to Polman and every post on this thread. I appreciate his and everyone’s input. My problem is I never blindly follow a leader if their direction is amiss. Seems the issue I’m having is not particularly common or possibly more people just don’t understand it is a problem. Easy as hell to test for engagement. Not so easy to test for disengagement.
You do realize most Polaris ATV’s can be operated on pavement in 4x4 with no adverse repercussions right? I’m not suggesting it’s something one would want to do long term but if the atv is properly functioning the rider shouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Thanks.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,595 Posts
OP, I'm not sure what the problem may or may not be. That's why I suggested you try a little of everything to see if you can isolate it and when/if its happening.
Did you ever inspect the Demand Drive fluid?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
Good idea. I have a motorcycle jack... it'll take all 4 wheels off the ground. I may not be able to do this for a couple of days. I will report back unless someone does a similar trial before me.
Ok Lon I may have some good news.
First my trials and travails :) Went to the dealer I bought my machine from today. Picked up the fluids and talked with the head mechanic there. No joy. He’s adamant that a Polaris machine is locked in 4x4 once switched to 4x4. I even brought my manual and read verbatim from it where they explain 4 wheel function. Had no answer for that. Likewise suggested all four wheels in the air and test for engagement. I agree. You will see engagement in that scenario.
Frustrated I had one last stop on the way home. Small Polaris dealer that has terrible customer service in the sales and parts division. But I had bought my sleds from them and knew the mechanic was knowledgeable.
Took ten minutes of his time but he was spot on in understanding how a Polaris atv functions. Knew exactly what I was talking about before I could fully explain it.
Here’s the rub. Most of the time this condition will be brought on by simply having too much air pressure in the front tires as opposed to the back. Mostly seen in aftermarket tires he said. All has to do with the ratio of speed between front and back that they are traveling. Higher ratio in the front (ie larger diameter)and a squib (think that’s what he called it) will have a chance to engage because the fronts are traveling slower. This is greatly exacerbated by the close ratio gearing ThorsHammer mentioned. I’m guessing this condition is seldom seen in the higher ratio machines like my utility.
Without the machine there that’s the best I could ask for. At least he understood what I was asking and had an explanation.
It occurred to me after his explanation that if such a small discrepancy in tire diameter could cause this could wear on the rear tires and not front also cause this issue. He said that’s also possible. They are that fussy. His biggest beef was with some nonPolaris tires that may not be manufactured to tight enough tolerances in diameter between front and back.
I’m not sure if her tires are actually stock or not. I believe they are but,,,,,,

So my next step when I see that machine again will be reduce tire pressure in the front and see if it goes away. Gotta admit I’m not too confident LOL. Why would Polaris quicken the response time of front end engagement to the point of easily becoming detrimental? Marketing I suppose.

I make no contention of understanding exactly how all this stuff works nor of my explanation of it. But I have an avenue to explore and a mechanic that seems to understand the problem anyway. Best of luck to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
OP, I'm not sure what the problem may or may not be. That's why I suggested you try a little of everything to see if you can isolate it and when/if its happening.
Did you ever inspect the Demand Drive fluid?
No I haven’t had the chance yet. I got some fluids today and will check level then drain to inspect and replace.
I do appreciate your help and am sorry if I come off snotty. This has been a very frustrating little adventure beginning with the mechanic/ friend of the guy that sold it to her. I’m not a confrontational type but I was ready to strangle this guy with the BS he was giving me LOL
Dealing today with the mechanic where I bought mine was just as crazy. I’m dumbfounded Polaris trained mechanics don’t understand what they are working on. Seem to be parts replacers only. Think I found a guy tho. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
you shouldn't see anything on the gauges unless there is a fault.
No. There is a drive wheel indicator on the display - near the bottom left. It's there all the time - no faults. The OP said he was looking at his indicator and that it had changed to AWD as soon as he depressed the throttle. I want to try some experiments with this. He may be on to something. Perhaps the close ratio AWD is not working as intended on many of the 2017 SPs? Who knows.
Mine just has all 4 lit up when in AWD, and nothing when in 2wd. but I don't have the full digital display.
I figured you might have the digital/analog... I couldn't remember if, on my last Sportsman, which was digital/analog, if the indicator was the same... and you confirm it is not. But no problem. Your feedback is always appreciated and you are always most helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
If you actually want to test it get all 4 wheels off the ground and run it through all its paces... Forward in 2 wheel then switch to 4 wheel then to reverse with and without the AWD selected and then with the reverse override pressed.
You can't really tell much about anything as to how its working by riding around the parking lot.
If everything works as it should with all the wheels off the ground then its good.
Good idea. I have a motorcycle jack... it'll take all 4 wheels off the ground. I may not be able to do this for a couple of days. I will report back unless someone does a similar trial before me.
Ok Lon I may have some good news.
First my trials and travails :) Went to the dealer I bought my machine from today. Picked up the fluids and talked with the head mechanic there. No joy. He’s adamant that a Polaris machine is locked in 4x4 once switched to 4x4. I even brought my manual and read verbatim from it where they explain 4 wheel function. Had no answer for that. Likewise suggested all four wheels in the air and test for engagement. I agree. You will see engagement in that scenario.
Frustrated I had one last stop on the way home. Small Polaris dealer that has terrible customer service in the sales and parts division. But I had bought my sleds from them and knew the mechanic was knowledgeable.
Took ten minutes of his time but he was spot on in understanding how a Polaris atv functions. Knew exactly what I was talking about before I could fully explain it.
Here’s the rub. Most of the time this condition will be brought on by simply having too much air pressure in the front tires as opposed to the back. Mostly seen in aftermarket tires he said. All has to do with the ratio of speed between front and back that they are traveling. Higher ratio in the front (ie larger diameter)and a squib (think that’s what he called it) will have a chance to engage because the fronts are traveling slower. This is greatly exacerbated by the close ratio gearing ThorsHammer mentioned. I’m guessing this condition is seldom seen in the higher ratio machines like my utility.
Without the machine there that’s the best I could ask for. At least he understood what I was asking and had an explanation.
It occurred to me after his explanation that if such a small discrepancy in tire diameter could cause this could wear on the rear tires and not front also cause this issue. He said that’s also possible. They are that fussy. His biggest beef was with some nonPolaris tires that may not be manufactured to tight enough tolerances in diameter between front and back.
I’m not sure if her tires are actually stock or not. I believe they are but,,,,,,

So my next step when I see that machine again will be reduce tire pressure in the front and see if it goes away. Gotta admit I’m not too confident LOL. Why would Polaris quicken the response time of front end engagement to the point of easily becoming detrimental? Marketing I suppose.

I make no contention of understanding exactly how all this stuff works nor of my explanation of it. But I have an avenue to explore and a mechanic that seems to understand the problem anyway. Best of luck to you.
Wow. This makes a lot of sense. You explained it very well. I want to experiment with this. I may not have an opportunity until the weekend, unfortunately. Please report back if you have a chance to toy around with this as well.

Thank you again for this information. Very good stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Had the same problem with my 2018 570sp. When I put it in 4x4 and hit pavement it became very hard to steer. Steering became hard in 4x4 even on the trails. Took it into dealer, $7000 worth of parts and labour later and they gave it back, saying it’s better but still does it, and told me to never have it in 4x4 on pavement. I traded it in for a different quad. The problem has something to do with the adc. Something is activating that front diff. The plate inside the front diff on mine after 1000 km was shredded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Had the same problem with my 2018 570sp. When I put it in 4x4 and hit pavement it became very hard to steer. Steering became hard in 4x4 even on the trails. Took it into dealer, $7000 worth of parts and labour later and they gave it back, saying it’s better but still does it, and told me to never have it in 4x4 on pavement. I traded it in for a different quad. The problem has something to do with the adc. Something is activating that front diff. The plate inside the front diff on mine after 1000 km was shredded.
I’m surprised you got 1000k out of it in that condition. Hope that 7 grand was under warranty. Certainly sounds like the mechanics you had were of the parts replacers variety. That’s a new machine. Why wouldn’t they contact the engineers at Polaris and do a little brainstorming? Someone has to know how to test all these functions. They designed them LOL
The only testing I’ve done on the adc was to switch in and out of it in hopes the problem would go away. Either that or the switch was somehow messed up and 4x4 was actually 4adc. I don’t have adc on mine so I’m not sure what exactly it should feel like.

Lon I’ll let you know if dropping pressure stops or lessons the issue. Maybe tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I have owned Sportsmen 500s for over 25 yrs. Once engaged, 4x4 sty’s engaged until power is removed with key or kill switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
I have owned Sportsmen 500s for over 25 yrs. Once engaged, 4x4 sty’s engaged until power is removed with key or kill switch.
It’s the on demand feature we are discussing. There’s some truth to your statement but just because 4x is engaged doesn’t mean the front wheels are always engaged. From an article discussing Polaris on demand front differential.


Polaris Locks Differently

Polaris’ diff is completely different. Remember, with 4WD engaged the ring gear uses the sprague and its rollers to turn both front axles. The way it locks is ingenious.

The front diff is geared lower than the transmission which means the front axles have more torque and turn slower than the rear axles. This means that if you’re driving on dry flat ground with four-wheel-drive engaged, the ring gear is turning slower than the front axles which are rolling the same speed as the rear axles. That means the rollers don’t get wedged and no power is transferred to the axles. No four-wheel-drive.

When you hit a tricky section and your back wheels start rotating faster than your front wheels, the ring gear wedges those rollers and your front wheels start rotating with power from the engine. You have four-wheel-drive and your front diff is locked. The time it takes for it to engage and lock is almost instantaneous—the ring gear has to rotate only about 5 degrees.

Here‘s the really cool part, this engaging action can operate on each axle independently. So if you’re turning hard, your outside wheel will be moving fast and not engage while your inside wheel will engage. If you’re off camber in some crazy rock garden, a front tire hanging over open air will force the diff to lock instantly. Any time a front wheel gets caught or slows down at all, the diff is there to give it power. That means it always gives you power exactly when you need it and doesn’t give it when you don’t.

At its heart it’s truly a simple mechanism made up of just a handful of parts and only one electrical input. They work together in complex ways but if you need to replace something or service something, you don’t have to be a professional mechanic to figure it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Have a 2017 570 SP and mine does the same thing but more intermittent 4WD on trails. But you can tell as the power steering goes away. My dealer thinks it’s in the EPS but could not pinpoint. I also have a 2” lift, aftermarket shocks and wheel spacers. He said to remove all that and it’s fine. I remember having the intermittent issues prior to the upgrades. Was going to live with 2wd unless I really need awd/edc.
I will try the pressure trick on the front tires and see if it lessons the issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
They did contact Polaris, who told them to change the eps,..... twice. Then to change the front diff. They ( the dealer and Polaris ) were just determined that it was mechanical and changing a part would fix it. Yes all repairs were under warranty. I have a 2016 570 as well and that one works perfectly, I took a video of who hard it was to steer when in awd and demanded that the mechanic test ride it while I was there, after that they started throwing parts at it. A month before warranty was up I traded it in. It’s now been to three different dealers trying to sell it. ( with no luck ). Glad I got rid of it. Have a 2019 850sp now and no issues so far,
 
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
Top