[CloakMack]

Hey everyone. New to the forum but not new to quads, side by sides and bikes. But kinda new to Polaris new line up.
I just bought a 2020 Polaris Phoenix 200 and it’s having a performance issue. It just won’t run (idle or under throttle) right. New plug....timing is perfect....and all the electrical specs are within their tolerances.
I believe it needs to have the air screw adjusted, but I cannot locate it. The carb is a Keihin PTG 22. And I can’t find anything online about it. If there are any carb guys (or gals) that can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it
Thanks in advance

 

[latebird]

It does not have an air screw - it has a fuel screw that is capped to prevent tampering (required by the EPA) - it only affects idle and will not change high speed operation one iota.

The biggest variable to performance is altitude and fuel quality. What kind of fuel are you using and how old is the fuel?

 

[CloakMack]

The fuel is brand new premium. And I see the “valley” on the bottom of the carb in the center of the bowl...but there isn’t a cap or a plug in it. Nor is there a little hole inside the carb on the other end of where that “tunnel” is. If there was an “air screw” up in there, then there should be a little hole inside the carb adjacent to it. And there is not

 

[CloakMack]

 

[latebird]

The carb on the Phoenix is a simple VM style carb - and I stand corrected - it does have an air screw (#3) - #7 is the idle speed screw - if it won't idle or run right, I suggest you have the carb cleaned to remove varnish. I have serviced more than one NEW carb on a vehicle off the showroom floor because it set more than 30 days between prepping for sale and sale date - it only takes 21 days for alcohol blended fuel to gum up the inside of a carb if it sets unused.

 

[CloakMack]

I assure you this carb is surgically clean. And there is NO screw in that cut out center of the bowl

 

[latebird]

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the part in question - here's the carb according to the service manual - just exactly where is the hole you took a pic of and is it an OEM carb?

Got a pic of the carb the carb with the float bowl off? Maybe some pics from different angles and a pic of the make of the carb (brand name or manufacturer) and extremely helpful, any printing (ink or embossing) especially the model and serial number.

 

[CloakMack]

Yea. I’ll post a video of it close up when I get back to the shop. It’s a Keihin carb. PTG

 

[CloakMack]

#6 doesn’t exist on this carb. Side note - went to pull it in the shop....now it’s a complete no start!! I’ve read ALOT of Phoenix owners are experiencing some of the same issues. I’m aware of the updated spark plug bulletin also.
I forgot to mention, when it was running (albeit like crap) I sprayed some brake cleaner around the jug and carb to check for vacuum leaks.....and when I sprayed where the rocker box meets the head, also where the secondary valve intake bolts to the side of the head, the idle skyrocketed (slowly, but nevertheless it skyrocketed) I was unaware that the rocker box is under vacuum. Although I did notice a bit of a leak starting to form there. But no idle change when I sprayed the jug base, which leads me to believe the head gasket is ok. Lastly, I checked the timing (tire the top end apart) and it’s point on

 

[CloakMack]

 

[latebird]

Thank you for the vid - it is most informative

The screw on the RH side is the idle speed screw and it is missing the fuel screw

Unfortunately, the fuel screw and the idle screw is only sold as a set the good news is the part is only about $4 - part number 0452549

The breakdown on the Polaris site is not a true representation of the location of the parts.

 

[latebird]

I did get the manual - found it in the trash folder

 

[CloakMack]

I did get the manual - found it in the trash folder

What in the world? The trash? That’s how u file Polaris Phoenix manuals? Lol

 

[CloakMack]

How in the world would the fuel screw be installed if there isn’t a provision for it? I would have to drill and tap it?

 

[latebird]

What in the world? The trash? That’s how u file Polaris Phoenix manuals? Lol

Well that's how my mail server sorted it for me - I had to tell the server it was not trash

How in the world would the fuel screw be installed if there isn’t a provision for it? I would have to drill and tap it?

The fuel screw is depicted on the side when in fact it goes in the hole in the in the well next to the float bowl on the bottom of the carb.

Now maybe the mail server was right and the manual is garbage - in one pic they clearly show the air screw in the side of the carb

But the pic is of the Mikuni VM carb used on earlier models

Years of Phoenix through 2014 spec having a Keihin VM22 carb
In 2015 the spec changed to a Keihin PTG22

If you notice in the pic, the carb has a round float bowl and the one you video'ed has a square or rectangular bowl

Now on page 4.12, the manual shows how to set the float level depicting the Keihin carb, but while the text describes tilting the carb to get the float tang resting on the float needle pin, the pic is oriented incorrectly

On page 4.13 they describe testing the float needle seal - again illustrating the Mikuni carb

Finally on page 4.14 the manual illustrates checking the fuel level this time depicting a Mikuni BST CV carb

The manual is fraught with errors and incorrect representations

You (the mechanic) is expected to know what you are working on and where the parts go regardless of the pics in the manual.

Since you paid for it, you should complain - all in all, there is a majority of correct information, but the elementary school editors and proof readers who never even saw an ATV have used pics and text from previous manuals to assemble the current revision. This is what you get when you mandate a 'minimum wage' for inexperienced employees. I worked for 25 years in a factory to earn $16 per hour and I nearly ran the place, now new hires are being paid nearly the same wage and they can do without instruction is finding the rest room.

Get the screw set and put the fuel screw together correctly (place the spring on the screw, then the washer and then the o-ring and insert into the hole - screw in till it touches (might be able to see the tip of screw or feel it in the throat of the carb on the engine side of the butterfly valve))and back it out the prescribed initial setting - run the engine for about 20 minutes (not idling - riding) - when fully warm adjust the fuel screw for the smoothest idle and you are done.

 

[CloakMack]

Right. I hear what ur getting at...but that would mean that I would have to drill and tap a hole for the screw. Not really sure I wanna go that route. Yet
On a lighter note...I figured out why this thing is acting up (idle issues). Upon further inspection, the carb intake boot is put together really weird (what the hell has gotten into the Chinese Polaris manufacturers) its almost like a 3 piece boot. Metal on the outside with rubber sandwiched in the middle (if you’re looking at the inside of the intake) from the outside it looks like a 2 piece. Anyway, the rubber had a 1 inch crack in it. And it was ONLY visible if I twisted or applied pressure to a very specific area. But it would suck air regardless of the twisting. And there I have found the reason I could not get this thing to idle correctly nor could I time the carb correctly. A 70$ part (ordered) caused me to pull most of my hair out. I applied a little quick fix just for troubleshooting purposes and it idled just as smooth. Even reacted properly when I adjusted the idle screw.
My kids are gonna be thrilled.
Thanks for everyone’s attempt at helping me. I’ll have to pay it forward

 

[latebird]

Glad to hear you figured it out - remote assistance is limited to past experience and best guesses - it's a quite different situation when an experienced mechanic has his hands on the offending machine as experience has taught him what to look for and how to go about finding what he suspects the problem to be.