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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2014 570
Low miles.
Fully charged battery
Turn the key and it cranks, and cranks, and cranks. Does not attempt to fire at all.
Open air box, spray a touch of starting fluid in, it fires right up.
Idles and runs perfectly once started.
Turn it off and it will not start.

Spark plug changed, air filter is clean, fresh fuel in tank.

Any ideas?
 

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2014 570
Low miles.
Fully charged battery
Turn the key and it cranks, and cranks, and cranks. Does not attempt to fire at all.
Open air box, spray a touch of starting fluid in, it fires right up.
Idles and runs perfectly once started.
Turn it off and it will not start.

Spark plug changed, air filter is clean, fresh fuel in tank.

Any ideas?
When is the last time the valves were checked for clearance? If you don't know, then it time to have it done - it part of the routine maintenance regimen. It will get to the point it will not start with starting fluid in a short time - you need to make your appointment now or it will be two months before you get it in and get it back - if you make your appointment now, you may only have a month to wait to get it in and back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not sure if valves were ever checked. Not mine (family members) and they recently got it used.

Ive done 570 valves, not a bad job. Just wish you could run to the local shop and buy shims instead of having to order the welded tappet. None of the shops around here stock them.

The first time I did 570 valves, one had less than zero clearance. I ordered the smallest graded tappet available so I could install it and get a measurement. I keep that one on the shelf for future valve adjustments
 

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Not sure if valves were ever checked. Not mine (family members) and they recently got it used.

Ive done 570 valves, not a bad job. Just wish you could run to the local shop and buy shims instead of having to order the welded tappet. None of the shops around here stock them.

The first time I did 570 valves, one had less than zero clearance. I ordered the smallest graded tappet available so I could install it and get a measurement. I keep that one on the shelf for future valve adjustments
There is a conversion kit for changing the 570 to shim under bucket so you don't have to buy the bucket/shim
It's $280 one time, but it eliminates buying $35 buckets - just something to consider

153097
 

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570 SP
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the day is coming when i will have to adjust the valves on my two 570,s . i,m assuming that
valve seat wear makes the valve clearance titer. could u not chuck the valve bucket in a lathe
and take the calculated amount of the bottom of the bucket???
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, they get tighter.

Theoretically, yes that would work.

I'm not sure if the wear surface of the graded tappet is hardened steel. If it is, would machining a few thousandths off cause them to wear prematurely?
 

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i know that u cannot have two hardened surfaces rubbing together. one has to be softer.
the cam lobes are usually hardened .
i,m assuming that the bucket shim would be soft and u would probably remove metal
on the bottom .
 

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i know that u cannot have two hardened surfaces rubbing together. one has to be softer.
the cam lobes are usually hardened .
i,m assuming that the bucket shim would be soft and u would probably remove metal
on the bottom .
The wear occurs on the valve face more so than the valve seat - the shim and bucket is harder than the valve stem and (as I was taught) harder than the camshaft, but the degrees of hardness are not too far apart. You can surface grind regular valve shims, but I'm not sure how you would grind the shim inside the bucket. It's simply a machining process that I have not witnessed or have the tools to do.

For anyone interested in the conversion kit, I can get it for $200
 

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If you do grind your bucket, remember that the next time you won't be able to use the part number stamped on the bucket to figure out it's size!!! Just a thought for the next person who does all the measurements and orders the wrong size because the previous person ground it down.
 

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2015 sportsman 570
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My 2015 570 was starting hard when cold And as winter came it pretty much wouldn’t start at all. Had the dealer look at it and they said the valves had too much carbon on them and weren’t seating. That was at 1,400 miles and I had just bought it. Last time I will let a seller show me a vehicle with a warm engine. The dealer took the head off and cleaned the valves for $500. Been fine ever since and now over 2,000 miles.
 

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My 2015 570 was starting hard when cold And as winter came it pretty much wouldn’t start at all. Had the dealer look at it and they said the valves had too much carbon on them and weren’t seating. That was at 1,400 miles and I had just bought it. Last time I will let a seller show me a vehicle with a warm engine. The dealer took the head off and cleaned the valves for $500. Been fine ever since and now over 2,000 miles.
You are sure he took the head off? Usually hard starting is just a valve clearance issue - the valves lose clearance as the valve face and seat wear during break-in. Break in can be from several days to several months depending on many various factors. One of the first maintenance chores on a new engine is increasing the valve clearance back to minimum specification.
 

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You are sure he took the head off? Usually hard starting is just a valve clearance issue - the valves lose clearance as the valve face and seat wear during break-in. Break in can be from several days to several months depending on many various factors. One of the first maintenance chores on a new engine is increasing the valve clearance back to minimum specification.
I can only be as sure as what they told me and what the labor sheet described. Both saying they removed the head and cleaned the valves and that the valves had carbon build up. When I asked what I could do to prevent this(even though it was caused by the previous owners driving style or habits) they told me to run 91 octane or higher. I do remember looking in at the engine area to see if parts were moved around and there was obvious signs of the block and head being cleaned where they seal together.
 

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I can only be as sure as what they told me and what the labor sheet described. Both saying they removed the head and cleaned the valves and that the valves had carbon build up.
I just find it curious - I've been a mechanic for about 50 years and never seen a carbon build-up cause a loss of compression and I have worked on just about every internal combustion engine configuration imaginable. I suppose it is possible, but I've never seen it. Running high octane fuel will help as the exhaust temperature will be higher - the only other thing (besides certain fuel additives) to reduce carbon build-up is high quality fuel and high speed operation.
 

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2015 sportsman 570
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I just find it curious - I've been a mechanic for about 50 years and never seen a carbon build-up cause a loss of compression and I have worked on just about every internal combustion engine configuration imaginable. I suppose it is possible, but I've never seen it. Running high octane fuel will help as the exhaust temperature will be higher - the only other thing (besides certain fuel additives) to reduce carbon build-up is high quality fuel and high speed operation.
It is curious. I would’ve tried getting more info or asked for pictures of the head off but they are not a very friendly dealer. The parts guy is nice but the rest of them do not like to be bothered, AT ALL. I’ve called them before to ask for the valve spec on my ‘09 550xp I was working on and they said they wouldn’t give it to me. Adjusted the valves on it and that too started fine and ran better. Didn’t have any time to deal with it when the 570 acted up so I brought to the dealer.
 

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I know shops that went out of business due to charging for work that was not done. Like de-carbonizing valves when in reality they only adjusted the valves. To add insult to injury, they charged for parts that were never used. I've actually seen mechanics pull out a dipstick, inspect the oil and charge for an oil change while never changing the oil because the oil "didn't need changed" - it's not whether the oil needed changed or not, it's the fact that an oil change was requested and paid for, but never received. I've instructed my students (whether they be aides, apprentices, helpers or aliens) that you do not charge for something you do not do! You might replace a part that didn't really need replacing and you can charge for that, and if it takes 2 hours to do a 1 hour job due to dirt, rust or an improper previous repair, you can charge for the time spent doing the job, but you don't charge for a valve adjustment even if it was requested when the solution to the problem was a new spark plug. You charge for the spark plug and the time to install it, but you do not charge for something you do not do. Additionally, you return all replaced parts to the owner. If the owner tells you they don't want them and to dispose of them, that's their option. I even offer old tires back to owner unless they want me to dispose of them (and most do). While it's obvious the tires on the vehicle are new, I still offer the old tires for the owner to dispose of so they can save $2.50 per tire disposal that I have to pay to have them hauled off.

I seriously suspect the shop charged for a head removal and service, but only adjusted the valves and I could be wrong - their technicians may be so inept they removed the head only to find out there was nothing wrong with the valves, they then cleaned the head, valves and ports, reseated the valves, adjusted the clearance and installed the head. If that was the case, then you paid for a service that may not have been warranted, but was performed and that is OK. Kinda like paying to have a room painted purple, not liking the result and paying again to have it painted another color. You payed twice to have it painted twice and that's fair.
 
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