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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen posts about battery tenders being a must on plow equipped machines because the stock stator can't keep up with the current draw.
The stock 200w stator on my 500 plays catch up sometimes after it sits at the house instead of plugged in inside the barn.
Are Higher Output stator assemblies available for the 400/500 Fuji engines?
I'd assume the diodes and FETs in the rectifier and regulator circuit would need to be upgraded to take advantage of significantly higher output windings but maybe not.
I've read a couple places about folks that have hacked stators by reconfiguring them from Y wound to Delta wound, without rewinding the whole assembly, to boost the current at lower RPMs.

I just pulled this thread up from Google. There are several... More electrical power ? Wye to Delta stator conversion - DR - ThumperTalk

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570 already runs a high output 560watt stator.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Can the 500 be boosted to near that output?

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
570 already runs a high output 560watt stator.
560w at 14.5v calculates to around 40A. Why would that not keep up with plowing?
I can see the 200w 19A stator in the 500 HO not keeping up. 40A should keep up... unless that's max output at 2,000 + RPM...

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This really got me interested, as I would like a little extra watts from the charging system myself. I found a few free sections of the 2012/2013 400/500 ho service manual, and indeed the stator is wired in a "Y" configuration according to the wiring diagram. So, theoretically, it can be rewired for more wattage. As seen on several other threads on different sites, if wired in delta, the charging capacity at idle will be less. In my case, it wouldn't be a problem, since I rarely leave the quad idling for long periods with the lights on. Also, when plowing, I'm in low range, and engine rpm is above 2500. If ever I have to tear into the engine, I will perform this mod. Also, it may be required to upgrade the regulator to accommodate the increased output. Mathematically, a 33% increase of wattage output is what to is be expected. So, a regulator from a Newer Polaris with higher wattage charging systems will be fitted in place. (570, 850 etc). hopefully someone will chime in with more info! Also, the wife's Phoenix 200 had some problems with the stator last year, where the wires burned off at the coils. The side cover is now leaking oil, and will need to be taken apart. While in there, I will see if it is delta wound, or a Y configuration. If I can wind it to delta, I will post results of before and after charging results.
 

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570 has a fuel pump and efi system to run, along with eps on some. Also you arnt always at peak out put, but it would help over all.

You would have to upgrade the voltage regulator to get the most out of a stronger stator. Extra power comes with the cost of robbed hp too.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You would have to upgrade the voltage regulator to get the most out of a stronger stator. Extra power comes with the cost of robbed hp too.
You'll only loose HP if you are moving lots of electrons... ex. running the winch a lot along with grip and seat heaters while plowing. When not demanding power the capacity is idle.

It all depends on where you want to get capacity. Self contained is nicer...

Installing a much bigger battery for plowing and then producing make-up electrons using a battery tender would work too. Up to a point.

An ATV snow blower with a Delco CS140 alternator belted to the motor and connected to the ATV battery would work too... kinda inconvenient to disconnect tho.

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Plus upgrading the wiring to handle the larger output.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
^^^Worth questioning.^^^

The only wire that's really in play is the charge wire running from the regulator to the battery. Any decent upgraded stator will have wires to the regulator more than capable of the max current.

Amps when you have watts and volts {A = W / V} V=14.5v nominal 12vdc system charge voltage. W=published stator or alternator wattage. My amps in prior posts were a close WAG.
Most service manual wiring diagrams since the mid 1980's give wire gauges in mm². This is a conversion table of MM² to AWG if you care. AWG to square mm Wire Gauge Conversion
This is a table of accepted wire gauge AWG & mm² to current capacity. https://www.eol.ucar.edu/rtf/facilities/isff/LOCAL_access_only/Wire_Size.htm

According to the schematics in my 2012 500HO service manual... Polaris used 2.0mm² wire from the regulator/diode pack to a fusible link at the starter solenoid (battery) on my 500HO. 2.0mm² stranded copper should carry a max of 41Amps. This is almost triple the current capacity needed for the max 13.79A output from the stock 200W 500HO stator. If I can bump it by 30% then I still am only cranking out 17.93Amps... 2.0mm² is still over double the gauge needed.
The 570 stator is capable of 560w/14.5v = 38.63A... This is still under the max current carrying capability of the stock 500HO harness but at that output I'd probably look at using the 570 regulator/diode pack.

I doubt wiring will be an issue... :D
 

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So what came of this?? I need to do something with my charging situation for my 13 500HO and two 400 HO's. We already know how woefully lacking it is when plowing, but adding more electrical items like grip heaters, EPS or aux lights really kills the voltage.
 

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Larger battery and the use of a tender while it's stored are the quick and cheap ways of helping.
And that solves nothing. I'm not going to mount a car battery on my quad for one... and for two, when you draw more than is being produced, battery tender and larger battery are a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

This is all along the same principle as idiots running high power consumption amps on their stereos and putting in capacitors thinking that will solve the issue of the amp continuously drawing more than the alternator produces. Yes, under the correct conditions, such measures are appropriate; in the case of car audio, when the averaged draw of the amp is less than the power remaining after running the vehicle, but you have spikes of high draw, a capacitor is appropriate; it prevents the charging system from seeing those high currant spikes that can kill a regulator.

In the case of an ATV, a larger battery may be the answer if your constant load is less than what is produced by the stator, but you have infrequent demand requirements above what the stator produces. Now, you go and start doing a lot of plowing where you are constantly using the winch, add some heated grips, a bunch of aux lights... well, that demand above what is produced isn't infrequent anymore. The larger battery will be drained down and the charging system will feel the load.

It's simple, we are talking spending vs income; credit can buffer periods of high spending, but it doesn't raise your income... and at some point it has to be paid back. A larger line of credit isn't going to solve the problem if your spending doesn't drop back down. Before you know it, your credit score starts sinking.



I need to hear some real solutions. Some input on where to get stators rewound, upgraded rectifiers/regulators, etc etc.




Don't take this as some sort of an attack btw; I just see non-solutions offered as a cure far too often for this sort of issue because people don't seem to understand what is at play with their charging system... and they completely ignore the reduced reliability of a charging system constantly running at 100%.
 

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Obviously the help portion was missed. The stator is only a portion of the charging system, you can have a 5Kw stator but its not going to do a damn thing until you replace the voltage regulator, wiring, add a real battery that can handle any kind of surge current. There is no easy fix, sure you can have the stator rewound to change the phase but your still only putting a bandaid on your gsw. If you want a real world solution run a small alternator off the primary, its about as close as your going to get to a "real" solution untill a 3rd party comes out with a upgrade to the whole system. You are using close to 70% of the charging systems capacity with just the low beams and break/tail lights on.

You can put a 30ah battery in the stock battrty box, which is over twice the stock batter on the 500's. It has twice the reserve capacity and is rated at 380 cranking amps so surge current is less detrimental to it. Is it perfect no, but its sufficent for most people dont need every gadget under the sun.

A capacitor is a buffer not a storage device, it should only be used to reduce voltage ripple from hi current draw or dirty input power. It helps in a audio system because they are ultra fast discharging and can supply amazing amounts of current. They do help reduce stress on the alternator and batteryby buffering out current spikes, if you over run them and the supply you are going to cook both.
 

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Obviously the help portion was missed. The stator is only a portion of the charging system, you can have a 5Kw stator but its not going to do a damn thing until you replace the voltage regulator, wiring, add a real battery that can handle any kind of surge current. There is no easy fix, sure you can have the stator rewound to change the phase but your still only putting a bandaid on your gsw. If you want a real world solution run a small alternator off the primary, its about as close as your going to get to a "real" solution untill a 3rd party comes out with a upgrade to the whole system. You are using close to 70% of the charging systems capacity with just the low beams and break/tail lights on.

You can put a 30ah battery in the stock battrty box, which is over twice the stock batter on the 500's. It has twice the reserve capacity and is rated at 380 cranking amps so surge current is less detrimental to it. Is it perfect no, but its sufficent for most people dont need every gadget under the sun.

A capacitor is a buffer not a storage device, it should only be used to reduce voltage ripple from hi current draw or dirty input power. It helps in a audio system because they are ultra fast discharging and can supply amazing amounts of current. They do help reduce stress on the alternator and batteryby buffering out current spikes, if you over run them and the supply you are going to cook both.

Okay, thank you! This is what I'm talking about! Now we are getting into the important stuff!

It seems as though the wiring can handle up to about 40amps, so that, theoretically, shouldn't be an issue. Regulator, I figured that might be a stumbling block.

So what are some ideas? I saw someone had mentioned something about running a 570 regulator on his 500? Is that even possible without extensive rewiring? Granted, I don't mind some rewiring; I've added additional fuse blocks to my quads, providing more ignition switched circuits... but I'm painfully detailed when I do this sort of thing and it tends to take a LONG time since I want it looking factory when I'm done and I solder before using crimp connectors unless absolutely not possible. I'm not looking to spend a week rewiring my quad.

It sounds like no one makes a replacement regulator, has anyone adapted one from another model that didn't require surgery? I'm looking for real charging system solutions here.



Anyway, since you brought up the battery, can you link me to this 30ah battery that fits in the stock tray? Are we talking Li-Ion, AGM, or flooded? I'd like to stay away from flooded... and I'm not convinced li-ion is the way to go either; I've heard way too many differing stories from both sides of that debate.
 

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Is the stock battery for the 800 value line. All the value line share the same chassis which the battery box is part of. Down side is the polarity is reversed so you need jumper wires to extend the stock ones. You can get them in agm, flooded or lithium but for a atv agm is going to be the best. I love lipo batteries, the current out put can't be beat, I have rc batteries that will happily push 250 amps full cycle and are tiny 5000mah cells but they need special care when charging and discharging, they tend to catch fire or explode over 140 degrees and the batteries currently avaliable for atvs have a weak reserve capacity.

Honestly I think a stand alone system would be the best solution for an upgrade. Something like a small alternator is self contained, the rectifier, and voltage regulator are on the unit and will only require very little wiring. Hard part is mounting it so the clutch cover still serves is purpose in protecting the clutch. You could run it off the prop shaft but then it would only function when moving.

I have never seen the value line power system compared to xp or star systems side by side to see if there is any hope of mixing then together.
 

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Is the stock battery for the 800 value line. All the value line share the same chassis which the battery box is part of. Down side is the polarity is reversed so you need jumper wires to extend the stock ones. You can get them in agm, flooded or lithium but for a atv agm is going to be the best. I love lipo batteries, the current out put can't be beat, I have rc batteries that will happily push 250 amps full cycle and are tiny 5000mah cells but they need special care when charging and discharging, they tend to catch fire or explode over 140 degrees and the batteries currently avaliable for atvs have a weak reserve capacity.

Honestly I think a stand alone system would be the best solution for an upgrade. Something like a small alternator is self contained, the rectifier, and voltage regulator are on the unit and will only require very little wiring. Hard part is mounting it so the clutch cover still serves is purpose in protecting the clutch. You could run it off the prop shaft but then it would only function when moving.

I have never seen the value line power system compared to xp or star systems side by side to see if there is any hope of mixing then together.

Okay great- battery issue is solved then.

I'm not interested in rigging up an alternator- it just seems like too many possible openings for problems- mud, water, lack of airflow for cooling... etc etc. So I guess on this side of things I might have to explore options for stator and regulator upgrades. If I can find something that works and will thus give a full system upgrade, I'll post it up.

Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't just sell my 400 & 500 and just get a couple 570's or a 570 and a 550.
 

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A little update...

Ricky Stator says no dice. Claims stock startor is the best it can be and there are simply no viable options. I have emails out to some others, I'm curious what they will say now.
 

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Is the stock battery for the 800 value line. All the value line share the same chassis which the battery box is part of. Down side is the polarity is reversed so you need jumper wires to extend the stock ones. You can get them in agm, flooded or lithium but for a atv agm is going to be the best. I love lipo batteries, the current out put can't be beat, I have rc batteries that will happily push 250 amps full cycle and are tiny 5000mah cells but they need special care when charging and discharging, they tend to catch fire or explode over 140 degrees and the batteries currently avaliable for atvs have a weak reserve capacity.

Honestly I think a stand alone system would be the best solution for an upgrade. Something like a small alternator is self contained, the rectifier, and voltage regulator are on the unit and will only require very little wiring. Hard part is mounting it so the clutch cover still serves is purpose in protecting the clutch. You could run it off the prop shaft but then it would only function when moving.

I have never seen the value line power system compared to xp or star systems side by side to see if there is any hope of mixing then together.

So I got what is apparently the battery for the 800- tried to put it in today and it is remarkably deeper than the factory battery. I have a 14L size from the factory, it seems the 800 is a 30L and is over an inch deeper; smiliar width and height though.
 

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Any way to modify the battery box to get it to fit? been thinking about expanding it to fit a 30l with some sheet metal.
 
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