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Discussion Starter #1
So after battling with my scrambler 500's four wheel drive for almost a year now. (It's an on and off battle) I finally said screw it, I ordered all new wheel bearings, hillard clutch, armature plates, and hub seals for good measure.

I install everything for the 20th time, (No joke) and it still doesn't work. I mean not at ALL! Hub won't even rotate at all with the driveshaft when the shaft is spinning. Ok so lets test electrical again.

I am getting 10 volts to the drivers side, and 10.5 volts at passenger side at idle. Ok lets rev the engine, in forward gear, in AWD, quad jacked up in the air. NOTHING! No increase in voltage, not even .1 volt. I am supposed to be getting between 11.8 and 12 with the engine above idle right? I am not getting that whatsoever.

So is that my problem? I tested for ohms and thats good. How do I figure out where I am loosing voltage or why I am not getting that bump up to 12 volts? Somebody please help me!
 

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I think i'd first try a jumper direct from the battery to the hub leads to make sure you have action. Have you checked/ohmed the hubstrut magnet coils? Once you make sure everything is a go with 12 volts, I'd then start working backward from the leads. Do you have a wiring diagram? You don't say what year model you have and I'm not sure about any relays that may be up stream. Have you tested output of the magneto to the battery? It could be a problem with the reverse override circuit causing you to loose the voltage somehow. If everything else checks out, I would suspect a faulty rpm limiter-hub ground or a connection thereto....#29 in the attached diagram.


http://parts.polarisind.com/images/4971/4971c008.gif


If worse comes to worse, you should be able to just jumper a fused 12 volt wire directly from the switch to the hub leads hot side and make it work that way. In other words, bypass the original wiring through the reverse override switch and the limiter and just get it hot with 12 volts and ground the other side of the leads of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think i'd first try a jumper direct from the battery to the hub leads to make sure you have action. Have you checked/ohmed the hubstrut magnet coils? Once you make sure everything is a go with 12 volts, I'd then start working backward from the leads. Do you have a wiring diagram? You don't say what year model you have and I'm not sure about any relays that may be up stream. Have you tested output of the magneto to the battery? It could be a problem with the reverse override circuit causing you to loose the voltage somehow. If everything else checks out, I would suspect a faulty rpm limiter-hub ground or a connection thereto....#29 in the attached diagram.


http://parts.polarisind.com/images/4971/4971c008.gif


If worse comes to worse, you should be able to just jumper a fused 12 volt wire directly from the switch to the hub leads hot side and make it work that way. In other words, bypass the original wiring through the reverse override switch and the limiter and just get it hot with 12 volts and ground the other side of the leads of course.
I will see if I can get a battery jumped to the coil, dunno what to use to jump it though. I might be able to rig something up?

I am getting 26.xx ohms from both coils so I am good there.

I do have a wiring diagram, I was thinking maybe a bad switch? But nah it works perfectly cutting off the voltage.

I have a 2001 Scrambler 500.

I have not checked the magneto, would the quad even be able to run if the magneto was the problem? Doesn't seem like a common problem area....doesn't hurt to check though.

How do I check the reverse override? I didn't know that would be connected to the power to the coils.

I can check the ground....does that part go wrong? The RPM limiter....still don't know how that effects the coils.

Could it be the connectors from the switch to the coils? Well I can check that by cutting a connector and checking the bare wire, but I will try a few other things first. But are the connectors a questionable solution?
 

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I just meant have you checked the voltage your getting to the battery while running at different speeds. The reverse override gives you AWD and full power in reverse...unless you press the button the ignition is interrupted and there is no 4x4. Its a safety feature.
The reason I suggested looking at the limiter is that from what I can find, apparently the hub coils ground through it.
Here's the link to the microfiche.
Browse
Just plug in your machine and go to "electrical"....#32.

I don't think you need to cut any wires...the coils plug in under the hood and you should be able to check everything without any cutting.
The only other thing I can think of would be the voltage regulator out next to the radiator not getting enough voltage to that side.

Good luck and let us know what you find. Someone else may chime in shortly on this.
 

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So after battling with my scrambler 500's four wheel drive for almost a year now. (It's an on and off battle) I finally said screw it, I ordered all new wheel bearings, hillard clutch, armature plates, and hub seals for good measure.
Did you test the Armature plate and coil operation before you put anything else back together? Check in the middle of this post: checking the coil operation BE SURE to check the electrical and spacing as explained. If it didn't work and the coil sleeve spacing is correct, jumper the wires to that hub directly to the battery (with another pair of wires) as Polman500 said. If that gets the armature plate tight against the coil...

I am getting 10 volts to the drivers side, and 10.5 volts at passenger side at idle. Ok lets rev the engine, in forward gear, in AWD, quad jacked up in the air. NOTHING! No increase in voltage, not even .1 volt. I am supposed to be getting between 11.8 and 12 with the engine above idle right? I am not getting that whatsoever.
A 1/2 volt difference between sides is significant. You have to check the connections and wiring at the connectors. On the Sportsman, the connectors are parallel off the same up-stream pair of wires. (One pair of wires coming from the controls gets split to two pair of wires, one going to each hub). Clean the connectors and contacts so the voltage is the same and grease them up with dielectric grease to keep 'em clean. Check the wiring for a conductor that's broken inside the insulation or a hole in the insulation that let moisture in and caused the wire to corrode inside.

[email protected]@k at the schematic to understand what you're looking at. Start at the contacts/connectors that I just explained (they're an easy place to start) and follow the wiring and schematic upstream to the next connection(s). The neg. probably goes to the speedo and the pos. to the AWD switch. The switch is a metal-metal connection. So when its ON, there shouldn't be any voltage drop between the Battery side and the hub side of the switch. Inside the speedo, there's a transistor, that is controlled by some logic (In gear and not reverse OR in reverse and override pressed). That will have ~0.5 to 1 volt drop from one side to the other.

So is that my problem? I tested for ohms and thats good. How do I figure out where I am loosing voltage or why I am not getting that bump up to 12 volts? Somebody please help me!
Did you measure ohms from each hub wire to the frame on the highest resistance scale your meter has (with the connectors disconnected)? Each one should read OPEN CIRCUIT. When idling, connect your meter to the battery. It should be ~12v, increase throttle a little bit and you should see the battery voltage rise to ~13-14 volts and not get any higher if you increase throttle.

give me results on each of these and we'll see if we can get you further.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Alright I cleaned out the connectors to the hubs and I am getting a constant 10.3 volts to each side. I guess equal voltage is good. Still no jump in voltage.

I checked the battery, 11.5 volts, no rise in volts when revs climb. I took the connectors off the battery, absolutely no voltage to the connectors. I guess thats why my battery died on me once while riding! I am getting no charge and voltage from the machine itself! Now where do I start in figuring out why that is?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
scratch that......im a dummy. Of course taking the connectors off would have no voltage right?

But anyways, the problem remains. Battery is at a constant 11.5 volts, no increase when it gets revved up
 

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scratch that......im a dummy. Of course taking the connectors off would have no voltage right?

But anyways, the problem remains. Battery is at a constant 11.5 volts, no increase when it gets revved up
Shoot me a reminder on Saturday evening. My new carb ought to be in by then and I'll check mine to see exactly what the battery voltage should be doing. In the meantime, assume your alternator/stator is OK if your battery normally holds a charge and starts your machine.

Have you tried testing the armature plate as described in this thread?:
http://www.polarisatvforums.com/forums/polaris-atv-how-tos/32989-awd-hubstrut-hilliard-clutch-troubleshooting-diagnoses.html

You haven't tried direct wiring the hub coils to the battery either. If there's no magnetic pull or if it's weak, and your ohming out left and right sides to the same resistance, and the resistance to chassis from each hub wire is open circuit, your coil sleeves are probably out of spec. With all that new stuff you've got in there, there really isn't anything else. But BOTH sides having this same problem would be strange unless someone did the same wrong thing to both sides while they were repairing/replacing all that other stuff :-/

Anyway, both sides not working and the low voltage suggests it's in the control circuit; the direct wiring should prove this. Go to an automotive store near you and get the connectors you need to mate directly to the hub coil connectors coming from one side, attach wires and run it to the battery and check one side's armature plate. leave the wheel off until you get this thing pinned down.

It sucks but you've got to be methodical and do the hard stuff too. go through the link step-by-step. Helps if you got a friend to hang out with you while you work or put some music on. Not trying to be a wise guy, I know how hard it can be to do something you've been over a million times or just aren't comfortable with, but you'll learn a lot that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I had the armature plate off and I turned on the AWD and it stuck on there pretty good. I had to slide it off to get it off.

Alrighty I will get a direct connect from a battery to the coils. I hope it works! I shall report back with results
 

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If the plate stuck on tight it should work regardless of voltage although you should have about 13+ volts at the battery when revved up. Are you trying it with all 4's off the ground? Start it, put it in gear and try to hold the front wheel? Then turn off AWD and hold it to be sure it disengages.
How are you torquing the front hubs down? Are you following the proper procedure of turning while tightening to the specified "INCH POUND" SPEC and then back off 1/2 turn and then tighten to final torque?

To repeat...if the plate stuck tight to the magnet it should work if you have all the other parts in correctly! ie. the Hilliards turned the right direction with the plate tabs in the corresponding notches and torqued correctly with the right oil at the right level.
 

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If the plate stuck on tight it should work regardless of voltage although you should have about 13+ volts at the battery when revved up. Are you trying it with all 4's off the ground? Start it, put it in gear and try to hold the front wheel? Then turn off AWD and hold it to be sure it disengages.
How are you torquing the front hubs down? Are you following the proper procedure of turning while tightening to the specified "INCH POUND" SPEC and then back off 1/2 turn and then tighten to final torque?

To repeat...if the plate stuck tight to the magnet it should work if you have all the other parts in correctly! ie. the Hilliards turned the right direction with the plate tabs in the corresponding notches and torqued correctly with the right oil at the right level.
I torqued it down as the manual said exactly. I will put 12 volts to the coil through the connector to see if it engages. If it doesn't then you are right, I have a mechanical problem. But I want to get that 12 volts on there just to be sure.
 

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I had the armature plate off and I turned on the AWD and it stuck on there pretty good. I had to slide it off to get it off.
Then the electrical system is working fine. Don't waste anymore time on it.
 

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Then the electrical system is working fine. Don't waste anymore time on it.
If ya say so. Alright commence testing coils
You just did. You mean Hilliards? Put the Hilliard back on and twist it while the engine isn't running. The rollers should expand outwards until the peak of the hex cam passes and then should return without getting stuck between the fingers of the Hilliard cage.

By the way, you didn't grease the bearings did you? I made that mistake out of habit. You also want to avoid getting the grease you coat the seals with between the armature plate and coil sleeve. Your hilliard parts should be grease free and you need to fill the hubs with Polaris Demand drive fluid or Synthetic Type F ATF to the 3 O'clock position on a rebuild. Polman's suggestions are on the money as well. Again, check the instructions here: http://www.polarisatvforums.com/forums/polaris-atv-how-tos/32989-awd-hubstrut-hilliard-clutch-troubleshooting-diagnoses.html#post220337
You said in your first post on this thread, you bought all new parts, are you using new parts or are they just new to you?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Then the electrical system is working fine. Don't waste anymore time on it.
If ya say so. Alright commence testing coils
You just did. You mean Hilliards? Put the Hilliard back on and twist it while the engine isn't running. The rollers should expand outwards until the peak of the hex cam passes and then should return without getting stuck between the fingers of the Hilliard cage.

By the way, you didn't grease the bearings did you? I made that mistake out of habit. You also want to avoid getting the grease you coat the seals with between the armature plate and coil sleeve. Your hilliard parts should be grease free and you need to fill the hubs with Polaris Demand drive fluid or Synthetic Type F ATF to the 3 O'clock position on a rebuild. Polman's suggestions are on the money as well. Again, check the instructions here: http://www.polarisatvforums.com/forums/polaris-atv-how-tos/32989-awd-hubstrut-hilliard-clutch-troubleshooting-diagnoses.html#post220337
You said in your first post on this thread, you bought all new parts, are you using new parts or are they just new to you?
Oh I guess your right lol Test positive!

Nope, no grease. And I filled up the hub with the Polaris Demand drive fluid then tilted the hub to the three position just like the Clymer manual said to.

Parts are new to me, but they are really clean and almost look brand new! Armature plate is straight, hillard clutch is perfect...wheel bearings are perfect
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Alright so I stuck a battery on the coil connector just for fun. I revved the quad on jacks in forward really hard so the tires were spinning nice and fast so FINALLY the hub caught. I plugged the connector back into the bike and the hub caught again at lower revs. I couldn't get the other hub to catch though. So I said screw it and put the quad down and rode it to mud............NOTHING!!! NOT A SINGLE CATCH OR PULL FROM THE FRONT WHEELS.

Alright so the battery was kinda really dead. And the quad isn't charging the battery....could that be why it wasn't working? No voltage getting to the coils? OH, I can check that! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I believe I found my problem guys. I was checking out all my wiring and I found something suspicious. All the connectors going out of my voltage regulator were burnt to heck!!! I mean bubbled and black kinda burnt. No way was the regulator going to send any voltage out even if it was working. I suspect my regulator shorted or something along those lines.

New regulator and connectors are on their way!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I need a little help, which black box is the voltage regulator and which is the RPM limiter/hub ground? Top or bottom?

 
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