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Carb rebuilding lessons learned

9.6K views 5 replies 5 participants last post by  Tom Cook  
#1 ·
I wrote this in response to a post, but thought it might be worthy of its own post. These are a few things I’ve learned in the past few months dealing with carb issues on 3 ATVs of mine, and 1 of my neighbors. I welcome debate from the guys on here that actually know what they’re doing....

1) The original carb is better than the cheap aftermarket carbs... Since they’re so cheap, I tried replacing the carb to save me the work of a thorough clean and rebuild on one of mine, and my neighbor’s ATV. Worked perfectly on his, worked “OK” on mine. Ran, but not smoothly. Not happy with “OK”, I took my original apart, used some parts from the aftermarket carb that it needed, cleaned it extremely thoroughly (more on this later), and put it back together. Now runs perfectly.
2) Be meticulous (REALLY meticulous) during the cleaning/rebuild process... On the first one I did, I cleaned it with carb cleaner and blew out the passages with air, but didn’t really make sure ALL of the passages and tiny holes were obstruction free. That one ran (again) “OK”, but didn’t have a nice fast idle on full choke, and was a little sluggish. I took it off again, disassembled and did a carb dip, bought a cheap set of progressively smaller sewing needles from Walmart, and made sure ALL of the little holes were obstruction free (some were still clogged even after the dip). Blew everything out, and now that one runs like brand new.
3) Choke (enrichener) adjustment is difficult, but I found the solution.... This may be causing your problem... Getting that 1/8 inch of play in the choke/enrichener circuit is difficult to judge through an old cable, even after it’s oiled. Figured out that one of mine was way off even though it felt right... by measuring. When you have the choke cable out of the carb, use a micrometer to measure from the surface of the choke hole to the surface inside the hole where the plunger bottoms out (most micrometers have a protrusion on the end that will allow you to do this). Transfer that measurement (plus 1/8 of an inch) to the choke cable, measured from surface of the choke nut that contacts the carb to the end of the plunger (not including the nub at the end). If you look at the components involved, my description should make sense. This sets it up perfectly. Then just screw the choke plunger back into the carb, already adjusted. Once it’s set up this way, you can make fine adjustments once it’s in, but you won’t need to.
 
#2 ·
I agree.

I dont believe in using aftermarket rebuild kits either. Better of buying genuine replacement parts. Typically dont need much in parts.

Ive never had much trouble dialing in the choke adjustment but, it that sounds like a good solution

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#4 ·
I have to echo what Latebird said....I won't buy Polaris carb parts simply because of the cost! They do not offer a carb kit and the needle/Seat by itself is about $60. The carb kits the shop uses are from Moose and are around $40 for the whole thing. My point is that it is not necessary to buy OEM parts as long as you use a quality kit. If you don't know which one to get ask the shops in your area what they use.
 
#3 ·
I would caution you about using steel needles to clean orifices in carburetors - the orifices are very precisely sized - just scratching the opening with a needle will change it's calibration. Using anything harder than the material the orifice is made of can result in a ruined carb. Water is the most common destroyer of carbs. The parts in rebuild kits are not usually the problem. The problem lies in the re-builder not checking the parts for accuracy. If you use rebuild kits with proven reliability, you will have a high success rebuild rate.

I use strands of copper wire from machine tool wire to poke through jets and orifices before and after chemical cleaning. In my experience, spray carb cleaner is OK for external cleaning, but dip cold cleaner and/or heated sonic cleaning is the solution for thorough internal cleaning. The cold dip cleaner I use is the professional grade which has a MSRP of $188 in a 5 gallon bucket. One gallon replinisher to replace solution lost when removing cleaned parts has an MSRP of $54. Any removable jet should be replaced rather than cleaned. I have a successful carb rebuild rate of about 90%.

You solution to adjusting the enrichener is not unique, but is a functional solution to a non-problem. The adjustment of the enrichener is not critical as long as it is closed when you want it closed. Problems with the enrichener are generally attributed to the cable or the cable operator (operator includes the driver of the vehicle). The best operator is the pull knob. The old Polaris and Yamaha enrichener cable operator was a 'flip' handle. It offered half and full positions. The problem was most of the time 'full' was less than full. I found it helpful to physically pull the flip operator to the limit of it's travel for easier below freezing starting. This is not necessary with the pull knob operated cable as it stops when the travel limit is reached. Now as to the operator of the vehicle; most drivers do not know that use of the enrichener eliminates operation of the throttle during cold starting for all but the carbs with accelerator pumps. Operating the throttle while using the enrichener overrides the enrichener making starting harder. Best to pull the enrichener full on and do not touch the throttle. Now for those with accelerator pumps (my CRF for example); I open the enrichener, pump he throttle 3 times and kick or operate the electric starter - it will start, run a bit and die - I pump the throttle twice and restart - depending on the air temp and humidity it will start and fast idle or start and die - if it dies, I pump the throttle one time and restart - normally this is the final start as it fast idles till warmed up - if it dies again, one pump and restart - if it's below freezing, one or two more one pump restarts may be necessary. Once fast idling, I start getting ready to ride; changing clothes, putting on MX boots, chest protector, helmet and gloves (about 5 minutes) - when dressed for riding, I get on the bike and start riding leaving the enrichener on - the enrichener is ineffective when the throttle opening is above idle and the engine needs 10 to 15 minutes of run time to be fully warm. After a few minutes of riding with the enrichener on, I find a convenient place to reach down and push the enrichener off and from that point on the enrichener is no longer needed unless stopping for more than 15 minutes. I never stop and allow the engine to idle for more than a minute.

As to the cheap carbs - some are not worth using for anything more than a paperweight, but some a very good replacements - the problem is figuring out what is OK. I've had good success, KUN FU, STANDARD OF JAPAN and XJY brands of Chinese carbs. I don't mind using Chinese carbs on Chinese produced vehicles - that includes Polaris 50' and 90's, Suzuki LT50, LT80, Yamaha Vino scooters and the Kawasaki KVF50 and KFX90. If you buy an OEM carb from Polaris for their Dinli produced 2 stroke ATV, it is a $75 (from Dinli) Chinese carb for $450 from Polaris - you definitely pay for the name. The same carb can be purchased from Alpha Sports, Eton, Adly, Vento, Arctic Cat and a variety of other Chinese suppliers for as little as $20 to as much as $259 from Arctic Cat - the carb from Can Am is no longer available.
 
#5 ·
I get the steel on softer metal (I assume aluminum or some variant) precaution. I was aware of the damage potential and was very careful, but I couldn’t think of anything else small and strong enough to unclog those orifices that didn’t cost more than a weekend tinkerer was willing to pay for such a tool that would be rarely used. Professional mechanics are justified in such expenses. Us weekend guys tend to get stuck sleeping on the couch if caught buying too many tools (“if caught” being the key phrase ;-) I’m not sure where to get the wires you describe, but would love to get some if they’re cheap and you can provide some additional detail on how to get them.

The choke thing is all about it being open when you don’t want it to be, which was my problem that I solved by measuring. Because of the spring and the tension in the cable, I had trouble telling when it was fully seated while trying to adjust. By measuring, I know for sure.

I do like the idea of the Pull Choke though. Does somebody make one that fits nicely on 1997-2000 era Polaris ATV’s?
 
#6 ·
I have used a common torch tip cleaner set, which has all the sizes of you need and can be found at NAPA for $5. I have been using them to clean the small orifices and jets in carbs in outboards, lawn mowers, snowmobiles, generators, and dirt bikes, for years, along with spray can carb cleaner and compressed air, and so far never have had an issue with damaging jets. Maybe I'm just lucky, its a fine line between clean and too big. You just have to be very careful when choosing the correct size of tip cleaner, start with a smaller size, work up gradually and take your time. I have also used tiny drill bits to gently remove varnish from plugged fuel passages. Definitely there is potential to do more harm than good if you force things...