[whytee]

Hi ya'll,
I put a $1,500 deposit down on a 570 Sportsman Trail (Onyx) in early March when the MSRP was $9,899.00 and fees on the BOS were as follows:

• Freight: $0 / $460
• Total setup: $95 / $200
• Total other: $200 / $250
• Doc fees: $100 / $150
• Other fees: $14 / no change

I got the call yesterday that my ride was ready to be picked up and my salesman sends me a new BOS with increased fees ( new fees in BOLD above next to original fees) and the MSRP was increased to $10,299.00

Based on others experience, are these increases reasonable? They caught me off guard!

When I put a significant deposit down on a purchase, that I receive an "out the door" quote on, I wasn't expecting "the old switcharoo" at pick-up.

Thank in advance for any input and Semper Fi !

~Whi.tey
(can't believe this forum rejected my user name "whit.ey" as offensive!)

 

[FPD218]

to the forum

.
From the official Forum greeter, beware of the imitators.

 

[FPD218]

I call BS on the dealer. If you actually have a signed purchase agreement contract I'd go see a lawyer.

 

[BlazinRoofer]

Hi ya'll,
I put a $1,500 deposit down on a 570 Sportsman Trail (Onyx) in early March when the MSRP was $9,899.00 and fees on the BOS were as follows:

• Freight: $0 / $460
• Total setup: $95 / $200
• Total other: $200 / $250
• Doc fees: $100 / $150
• Other fees: $14 / no change

I got the call yesterday that my ride was ready to be picked up and my salesman sends me a new BOS with increased fees ( new fees in BOLD above next to original fees) and the MSRP was increased to $10,299.00

Based on others experience, are these increases reasonable? They caught me off guard!

When I put a significant deposit down on a purchase, that I receive an "out the door" quote on, I wasn't expecting "the old switcharoo" at pick-up.

Thank in advance for any input and Semper Fi !

~Whi.tey
(can't believe this forum rejected my user name "whit.ey" as offensive!)

The only fee I paid on my 2022 850 ultimate trail edition last year(I pre-ordered in September and picked up in December for $10,723{msrp on polaris website for my model was $11, 599 when I pre-ordered}) was $198 for a dealer document fee. Of course I also paid sales tax and registration fees but dealer doesn't get any of that. Sounds like you had a shady dealer considering my dealer charged me less than msrp and didn't add all those extra bogus fees and they obviously still made a decent amount of money. Msrp of my model went up(to $12,399)before I actually took ownership but my dealer stuck with exact out the door price they quoted me. Personally I'd request a refund of my deposit if they don't honor the price they told you at time of pre-order.

 

[latebird]

In the last 6 months the cost of fuel went up, cost of labor went up, cost of workers comp went up, cost of unemployment insurance went up, cost of trash disposal went up, cost of electricity went up (because of all the damn electric vehicles sucking power off the grid that could be used for homes and factories), real estate taxes went up and the documentary fees went up in many states (ILLINOIS was one of them - the cost of processing a MSO into a title went from $105 to $150).

The documentary fees are set by the state's legislature based on what the citizens of the state deem adequate and fair (you elected the congress people and they act on your behalf - sometimes)

The freight I pay to get vehicles delivered from the distributor went from $0 to $250 per unit (all I deal in is 125cc or less) - 200cc and larger cost up to $350, but side by sides can be from $450 to $600 depending on whether crated or assembled and LTL carriers charge an additional $150 for lift gate service.

Dealer prep? How long would it take you to uncrate and assemble a new 570? How do you dispose of the steel, cardboard and plastic removed during assembly? How much does it cost to put gas in the tank of every new vehicle? I paid $4.65 a gallon for 91 octane ethanol free in bulk (farm gas - farmers do not use ethanol as it causes expensive repairs on tractors and other machinery - in addition, the engines suffer power loss and it takes more gallons per acre to plant and harvest the crops).

Total other? It's to offset the cost of shop towels, cleaners, polishes, mandated vehicle literature required by the state to be posted on or with every new vehicle sold.

Yeah, I think it's fair. Buy a used vehicle and you still pay sales tax, dealer inspection and repair cost and you don't get out of the documentary fees by buying used. What you do get (sometimes) is a hidden defect that the previous owner discovered and purposely left undisclosed when he traded it in, or if you buy used from a private seller, you get all the Micky Mouse installed 'upgrades' and cut or spliced wires for said upgrades and or removed necessary modifications that the owner will transfer to his 'new' vehicle.

 

[rainmanx]

Unfortunately, you are stuck either way. If you go to another dealer, for sure you will probably pay an inflated price. So if you want the machine, maybe see if they will split the difference on the increases?

 

[BlazinRoofer]

In the last 6 months the cost of fuel went up, cost of labor went up, cost of workers comp went up, cost of unemployment insurance went up, cost of trash disposal went up, cost of electricity went up (because of all the damn electric vehicles sucking power off the grid that could be used for homes and factories), real estate taxes went up and the documentary fees went up in many states (ILLINOIS was one of them - the cost of processing a MSO into a title went from $105 to $150).

The documentary fees are set by the state's legislature based on what the citizens of the state deem adequate and fair (you elected the congress people and they act on your behalf - sometimes)

The freight I pay to get vehicles delivered from the distributor went from $0 to $250 per unit (all I deal in is 125cc or less) - 200cc and larger cost up to $350, but side by sides can be from $450 to $600 depending on whether crated or assembled and LTL carriers charge an additional $150 for lift gate service.

Dealer prep? How long would it take you to uncrate and assemble a new 570? How do you dispose of the steel, cardboard and plastic removed during assembly? How much does it cost to put gas in the tank of every new vehicle? I paid $4.65 a gallon for 91 octane ethanol free in bulk (farm gas - farmers do not use ethanol as it causes expensive repairs on tractors and other machinery - in addition, the engines suffer power loss and it takes more gallons per acre to plant and harvest the crops).

Total other? It's to offset the cost of shop towels, cleaners, polishes, mandated vehicle literature required by the state to be posted on or with every new vehicle sold.

Yeah, I think it's fair. Buy a used vehicle and you still pay sales tax, dealer inspection and repair cost and you don't get out of the documentary fees by buying used. What you do get (sometimes) is a hidden defect that the previous owner discovered and purposely left undisclosed when he traded it in, or if you buy used from a private seller, you get all the Micky Mouse installed 'upgrades' and cut or spliced wires for said upgrades and or removed necessary modifications that the owner will transfer to his 'new' vehicle.

It's fine that you've listed the expenses a dealer may incur to set up a machine but care to also share what percentage of the selling price a dealer receives? To me all of those bogus extra charges should just be included in the listing price instead of trying to hide it in "fine print". Why can't businesses just be upfront about the before tax and title price instead of sneaking it into "other" fees? To me that's just shady business practice....I can't be the only one who feels this way?

 

[whytee]

It's fine that you've listed the expenses a dealer may incur to set up a machine but care to also share what percentage of the selling price a dealer receives? To me all of those bogus extra charges should just be included in the listing price instead of trying to hide it in "fine print". Why can't businesses just be upfront about the before tax and title price instead of sneaking it into "other" fees? To me that's just shady business practice....I can't be the only one who feels this way?

Latebird,
Blazin does make a good point. Would you share what dealer cost is on a Sportsman 570 Trail Onyx?

I'm an independent, commissioned sales office for an industrial equipment manufacturer and while the manufacturerer I sell for has increased prices several times over the past 18 months with last increase in most dramatic (almost 10%) due to all the expenses you listed, my commission has also increased because it is a percentage based commission.

 

[rainmanx]

I am unsure about power sports, but here is my experience working for a Saab dealer in the late 80's...The car was probably only 10-12%. Extended warranty 100%. Parts 100%. Financing would get a kick back from the bank.

Of course once you purchased a Saab you were going to bring it in for 3k oil changes and 7.5k minor tune-ups(remove, clean, reinstall spark plugs and clean the throttle body, 30k was the more)!! 40k miles on a Saab and you can easily find 2k worth of repairs (this is in 89)..

I am guessing for power sports, the machine is probably 15-20%. Same markup for the other stuff.

 

[BlazinRoofer]

It's fine that you've listed the expenses a dealer may incur to set up a machine but care to also share what percentage of the selling price a dealer receives? To me all of those bogus extra charges should just be included in the listing price instead of trying to hide it in "fine print". Why can't businesses just be upfront about the before tax and title price instead of sneaking it into "other" fees? To me that's just shady business practice....I can't be the only one who feels this way?

I'll take that as a no then, you won't give us an idea on what percentage you make on selling price in addition to the other charges mentioned. I guess we'd expect someone who is also a dealer to try to justify all these bogus "other" charges without stating they also make a nice commission on the selling price as well. Typical dealer stuff I suppose.....

 

[MrEd]

I'll take that as a no then, you won't give us an idea on what percentage you make on selling price in addition to the other charges mentioned. I guess we'd expect someone who is also a dealer to try to justify all these bogus "other" charges without stating they also make a nice commission on the selling price as well. Typical dealer stuff I suppose.....

From what I’ve observed, different items have different profit margins. Some dealers will pass on reasonable price increases to the consumer, others will inflate them. A large high volume dealer may have slightly lower prices than a small one since they can make it up in volume. Quite a lot depends on the specific dealer…..
I don’t think it’s as cut n dry as you think it is.
-my opinion-

 

[BlazinRoofer]

From what I’ve observed, different items have different profit margins. Some dealers will pass on reasonable price increases to the consumer, others will inflate them. A large high volume dealer may have slightly lower prices than a small one since they can make it up in volume. Quite a lot depends on the specific dealer…..
I don’t think it’s as cut n dry as you think it is.
-my opinion-

I realize prices vary by dealer(my dealer sold at almost 8 percent under msrp and with only the $198 document fee) but latebird(as a dealer himself) was trying to justify all the other "fine print" upcharges as added costs to the dealer without mentioning the fact the dealer ALSO gets a percentage of the selling price. Personally I think the (pre-tax and registration) price should be straightforward instead of adding on SEVERAL "other" charges. Not good business practice imo. I have my own construction business and I don't try to sneak in extra charges on the final bill. I know all the extra expenses beforehand such as fuel, time spent prepping the trucks and materials, disposal of old materials, wear and tear on tools and equipment and etc. and all of that is factored in the original proposal. Dealers also know this but some decide to be shady by sneaking in extra costs and in the case in this thread doing it AFTER the initial agreement. Sorry for the long reply but obviously latebird felt compelled to chime in to try to justify the extra charges without telling the whole story and has chosen not to continue the conversation once it was mentioned that all of these costs should be factored into their commission(and I know he's commented on other threads since). Rant over 🙂

 

[BooggyMann]

I work for a boat dealership and all of our boat delivery fees everything have increased more than what the four wheeler fees have. And when I say they have increased more than the four wheelers have I’m talking five or $6000 added expense to the cost. I agree it is bullshit but if you want what you ordered you’ll pay the extra in these times even know money is tight and tough they’re just gonna keep raising the prices on everything adding more fees so get what you want now take care of it and don’t beat the shit out of it

 

[BlazinRoofer]

I work for a boat dealership and all of our boat delivery fees everything have increased more than what the four wheeler fees have. And when I say they have increased more than the four wheelers have I’m talking five or $6000 added expense to the cost. I agree it is bullshit but if you want what you ordered you’ll pay the extra in these times even know money is tight and tough they’re just gonna keep raising the prices on everything adding more fees so get what you want now take care of it and don’t beat the shit out of it

I'm sure most people want what they ordered but they want it for the agreed upon price at time of sale, not with extra fees tacked on(plus they'd prefer dealers be up front about pricing as opposed to a bunch of "fine print" costs snuck in there. Most people want to pay the out the door price at time of sale or deposit, not some unknown down the road price.....just saying...

 

[MrEd]

I'm sure most people want what they ordered but they want it for the agreed upon price at time of sale, not with extra fees tacked on(plus they'd prefer dealers be up front about pricing as opposed to a bunch of "fine print" costs snuck in there. Most people want to pay the out the door price at time of sale or deposit, not some unknown down the road price.....just saying...

Can’t argue that one bit….100% agree.

 

[claybuster]

When I picked mine up in January the dealer tried that shit with me, I pulled out the contract that said paid in full from September, I told him to either get it ready to load up or wait for a call from a lawyer. He handed me the keys.

 

[pcaster]

While cost of just about everything has gone up I don't trust all the costs transferred to the buyer. Unfortunately I would bet that a lot of places are also using that "excuse" to inflate costs blaming them on this, that, and the other thing. It's too easy to say a bunch of costs went up even if they didn't and the dealer pockets more of our $.

Sales people are labeled as dirt bags for a reason. It's not just because there is only a bad apple or two, the MAJORITY of them are and millions upon millions of people have the stories of their bad experiences to prove it. I myself have caught a few different sales people over the years trying to pull some BS over me. Thankfully I was smart enough to back them in the corner and call them out with the facts.

 

[BooggyMann]

The cost of freight on just a boat motor is 24.98% now. Last fall was only 17%. With gas/fuel prices on the rise freight is going to go higher so there for if you don’t pay in full at time of purchase agreement your price is going to go up to. Dealers would go bankrupt by not charging. Their prices change unexpectedly as does everything else, food, gas,fuel,automobiles etc they all get what the increase from freight costs. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not the dealerships fault with everything.

 

[BlazinRoofer]

The cost of freight on just a boat motor is 24.98% now. Last fall was only 17%. With gas/fuel prices on the rise freight is going to go higher so there for if you don’t pay in full at time of purchase agreement your price is going to go up to. Dealers would go bankrupt by not charging. Their prices change unexpectedly as does everything else, food, gas,fuel,automobiles etc they all get what the increase from freight costs. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not the dealerships fault with everything.

I think we all understand prices on everything are going up. What we don't understand is why most dealers are adding on all these extra charges when most of those should just be included in the price so that the customer knows what they are paying before day of pick up. Plus if you put a down payment on something that's not in stock you should get it for that quoted price since it's on order at that point and the full price SHOULD BE KNOWN. Adding on extra charges after that point is just slimy and shady business practice. Sounds like a lot of dealers are adding on extra charges and taking advantage of the customer while likely blaming it on the pandemic/worldwide shortages or whatever the case may be. In my world your word is everything and if you can't stick to it I personally will not deal with you again nor will anyone I know who may also be interested in whatever service you're offering. In my case I put a $500 down payment on a '22 850 ultimate trail edition in September of 2021 and picked it up in December for the out the door price I was quoted even though msrp had gone up significantly in those few months. There were also no extra added fees(just the $198 document fee mentioned at the time of pre-order). Other dealers also have the capability to stick to their word, some choose to be snakes instead....