[Rossko77]

Can you put a rear diff in place of the front and have it in permanent 4x4?

 

[ThorsHammer]

that would make it a Bear to steer... and you'll have to verify that the axles will fit.

 

[Treacherous]

I've probably seen someone talk about this over the years but can't remember. Anyone ever put in an electrical bypass, possibly using a relay and toggle switch to deactivate, to engage the front diff fully when they wanted it to stay in AWD? Wouldn't you just splice your 12V into front diff engagement wire? I have no need for this but maybe someone does.

 

[lost cause]

If it was possible it would not be a straight swap. It would be more work and money than it was worth. You'd be better off somehow trying to weld the front diff. to have it fully locked. I don't recommend full time 4x4 though, as it will make it horrible to steer. That thing would only be good for driving in a straight line.

 

[jbomb001]

I've probably seen someone talk about this over the years but can't remember. Anyone ever put in an electrical bypass, possibly using a relay and toggle switch to deactivate, to engage the front diff fully when they wanted it to stay in AWD? Wouldn't you just splice your 12V into front diff engagement wire? I have no need for this but maybe someone does.

When you put the switch into awd. It's always in awd. So no need to split wires or anything of that nature. The wheels still will not engage until the rear tires slip. The part that actually engages the front tires is mechanical not electronic. The electric clutches simply transfer power from the output shafts of the diff. To the cv. Shafts. So if you wanted the front to stay locked in you would have to change the ratio of the front tires in comparison to the rears. For example by putting front tires on that are 1/5 larger then stock. Or in turn rear tires that are 1/5 th smaller. When all is said and done the rear tire has to slip 1/5th of a turn b4 the front will do any work. So if the front is always turning 1:5th slower then the rear then the front diff. Will always be engaged.

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[polman500]

Can you put a rear diff in place of the front and have it in permanent 4x4?

The simple answer is....NOPE!

 

[Treacherous]

I know how it works but if you fed a continuous 12V to the front diff shouldn't it keep the front Hilliard engaged? You would effectively be bypassing the electronics. I have no intention on doing this as steering would be a bear but one could disable bypass with a toggle switch.

I've probably seen someone talk about this over the years but can't remember. Anyone ever put in an electrical bypass, possibly using a relay and toggle switch to deactivate, to engage the front diff fully when they wanted it to stay in AWD? Wouldn't you just splice your 12V into front diff engagement wire? I have no need for this but maybe someone does.

When you put the switch into awd. It's always in awd. So no need to split wires or anything of that nature. The wheels still will not engage until the rear tires slip. The part that actually engages the front tires is mechanical not electronic. The electric clutches simply transfer power from the output shafts of the diff. To the cv. Shafts. So if you wanted the front to stay locked in you would have to change the ratio of the front tires in comparison to the rears. For example by putting front tires on that are 1/5 larger then stock. Or in turn rear tires that are 1/5 th smaller. When all is said and done the rear tire has to slip 1/5th of a turn b4 the front will do any work. So if the front is always turning 1:5th slower then the rear then the front diff. Will always be engaged.

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[jbomb001]

The 12V is always there as soon as u turn in the awd switch anyway. All the 12v. Does is turn on the clutches and they are always on when the awd switch is on but u will receive no output from the diff until the ratio of the rear tire is faster then the fronts. It's not a sensor that turns it on and off like in a automobile. So if u " hot wire " the front diff it'll make no difference it is the same as turning on the awd. Switch that is already there... my apologies if I am miss understanding your question.

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[jbomb001]

Can you put a rear diff in place of the front and have it in permanent 4x4?

The simple answer is....NOPE!

Yes the answer is nope !! Haha

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[Treacherous]

The 12V is always there as soon as u turn in the awd switch anyway. All the 12v. Does is turn on the clutches and they are always on when the awd switch is on but u will receive no output from the diff until the ratio of the rear tire is faster then the fronts. It's not a sensor that turns it on and off like in a automobile. So if u " hot wire " the front diff it'll make no difference it is the same as turning on the awd. Switch that is already there... my apologies if I am miss understanding your question.

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I understand now. You've corrected a long misunderstanding I've had about the Hilliard. I see this in Service Manual as well.

Thanks!

 

[jbomb001]

The 12V is always there as soon as u turn in the awd switch anyway. All the 12v. Does is turn on the clutches and they are always on when the awd switch is on but u will receive no output from the diff until the ratio of the rear tire is faster then the fronts. It's not a sensor that turns it on and off like in a automobile. So if u " hot wire " the front diff it'll make no difference it is the same as turning on the awd. Switch that is already there... my apologies if I am miss understanding your question.

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I understand now. You've corrected a long misunderstanding I've had about the Hilliard. I see this in Service Manual as well.

Thanks!

Your welcome. Glad I could help

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[InRBigness]

It is a common misunderstanding. People think that the magnets somehow lock the hubs. They don't. Switch on the switch and 12v energizes the coils so that if and when the clutches detect slippage of the rear wheels the clutches are forced to engage. Without the 12v the clutches just freewheel.

The only way to have full time AWD is through the use of a welder.

 

[jbomb001]

Different tire sizes will fool the diff into thinking the rear is slipping but who wants smaller tires on the back anyway lol

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[Fly]

Full time, locked 4wd would not work. A mile or less down the trail and it would bind up completely making more forward movement impossible. This happens because the wheels will always be ever so slightly different circumferences/rotation ratios.

 

[ThorsHammer]

the tires will slip before the drive train binds up. even on dry pavement. it's just not a good idea. VERY hard on the machine and tires.

 

[Fly]

the tires will slip before the drive train binds up. even on dry pavement. it's just not a good idea. VERY hard on the machine and tires.

Continuing on would damage the drivetrain and very likely severely so. Hence it would not work. The machine would quickly become undrivable.

 

[ThorsHammer]

the tires will slip before the drive train binds up. even on dry pavement. it's just not a good idea. VERY hard on the machine and tires.

Continuing on would damage the drivetrain and very likely severely so. Hence it would not work. The machine would quickly become undrivable.

I know a lot of guys that have welded the diffs on their trucks and besides it being a pain in the ass to steer, the only problem they have is the tires chirping around corners. You're going to have more wear and tear on the machine, but I doubt it would be enough in a short period of time to make it un-drivable (save the horrible steering).

It would be a good way to ruin your day riding if you ask me.

 

[jgcoastie]

If you want something that will lock in all 4 wheels all the time, why not just trade in for a Yammerhah? Lock the front diff and enjoy beating yourself to death trying to steer the bastard...

I don't understand why people want to take the most efficient, seamless, and best performing ATV 4x4 system and muck it up into some weird, horribly steering system that won't work as well... This is the 3rd or 4th time I've seen a thread like this since I joined last fall... Methinks that the people asking the questions don't understand how the 4x4 system actually works on these machines... It's like they believe that the rear tires spin 99 times and then the fronts finally engage on the 100th revolution or something... It's 1/5th of a revolution people... You, the driver, can't even tell when your rears slip 1/5th of a revolution, so why think you can improve upon it?????

I just don't understand people...

 

[Fly]

the tires will slip before the drive train binds up. even on dry pavement. it's just not a good idea. VERY hard on the machine and tires.

Continuing on would damage the drivetrain and very likely severely so. Hence it would not work. The machine would quickly become undrivable.

I know a lot of guys that have welded the diffs on their trucks and besides it being a pain in the ass to steer, the only problem they have is the tires chirping around corners. You're going to have more wear and tear on the machine, but I doubt it would be enough in a short period of time to make it un-drivable (save the horrible steering).

It would be a good way to ruin your day riding if you ask me.

Huh, I find that surprising. I've been in 4wd trucks(nonlock diff) when the drivers forgot it was in 4wd and we were on dirt. The trucks started to buck and could not be shifted out of 4wd without going backwards for a ways to " unwind " the 4wd and thus relieve the tension on the drive system.

 

[Boburk]

Welding on a truck is for positraction....not locking in 4WD. Totally different set-up. 4WD is done in the transfer case.

Sean