[zoomeroo]

I know I have opened a can of worms here.

As it has been explained to me in another list (about clocks), Mobile One is not a Synthetic Oil.

Though it is different than plain old base stock oil.

I guess Exxon was part of a law suit against Castrol and Mobile. As it turned out Mobile actually changed their oil and lowered it's price to compete with the other "blended" oils. Castrol supposedly faired OK because theirs' was not a base stock oil any more and hence could still be called "synthetic". I guess they changed the base into something that wasn't "natural".

Now don't challenge me. Go to Google.

So, does Polaris oil have "Pad, Pao, or Pac" compounds in it? I am told that if these or at least one of these are not in the oil, then it isn't a synthetic.


Who is going back to Polaris oil?

I was also told that Amzoil is the only true synthetic oil out there.

I know nothing, only what I read on the internet, and if it's on the internet, it has to be true!

Just Sayin, so I am.

 

[SeanE1987]

I have almost 3000 miles on my 550 running Shell Rotella 5w-40, it still runs great and has no oil related issues, so it could have mozzarella cheese as a base stock and I could care less, just my 2 cents

 

[easystreet]

I did research into this topic years ago and from what I remember anybody can be considered synthetic once they have "modified" the oil at a molecular level enough.
I agree that its misleading. True synthetic oils in my opinion can only come from ester, castor, etc stocks. Amsoil is not the only true synthetic, but its considered one of the best. Redline is another that uses no petroleum.

 

[al53]

most oils companies keep thier formula as secret as coca cola..lol....Mobil changed oil formula after the Katrina hurricane cuase of POA availability...they even said so....but does not make it a bad oil...

The Mobil 1 formulation strategy has always been based on selecting the best components available. We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock, ‘Visom’ exclusively available to ExxonMobil. As we developed the Mobil 1 ESP technology we found that combining Visom with PAO could deliver a formulation of equivalent performance to an all PAO formulation.

Competitive advantage

Visom is the only non-PAO stock that can deliver the required performance to formulate a 0W grade oil that meets European OEM engine oil specifications. Visom is not available to our competition.

To support Mobil 1 growth

Global PAO capacity is limited. As we quickly approach this limit, new base stocks must be explored to ensure we can support the continued growth of the Mobil 1 family of products.

To ensure continuity of supply

As we saw with the 2005 hurricane, the more flexibility we have in our formulations, the better placed we are to withstand disruption to our supply. We can balance PAO and Visom supply fluctuations to ensure we can always deliver the final product to our customers.

To maintain market relevant pricing

As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.

To prepare for next generation basestocks (GTL)

Commencing 2010, the next generation of base stocks derived from Natural Gas (Gas To Liquids) will enter the market. These high quality basestocks will arrive in substantial quantities and will probably be used in the majority of competitive premium formulations. Visom is viewed as a precursor of GTL, and hence it’s use now in our flagship formulations eases our transition to a GTL world, and helps us understand how to maintain flagship performance using these high quality non-PAO basestocks.



With that said..oil technology advances yearly...so most top oil companies are making good oils...they have a reputation to uphold....Mobil 1 is used in new vehicle fills at the plant..so i would not hesitate to use it....most here use it..and no one yet has said they had an oil failure...

 

[robk]

I can't say what it's made from, but this is from the Mobil web site.

"Mobil 1
The world's leading synthetic motor oil brand, Mobil 1™ is an advanced full synthetic motor oil family that provides performance beyond conventional motor oils. Mobil 1 synthetic oils meet or exceed the toughest standards of Japanese, European and U.S. car builders and provides exceptional protection against engine wear, under normal or even extreme conditions."

Also, since PAO, or poly-alpha-olefin is a chemically manufactured compound, I don't see how there can be a global limit on it.

 

[Miker]

Exxon-Mobil Chemical (not Mobil 1 oil company) is the leading producer of PAO's.

Here is AMSOIL's answer to the ? of basestocks

AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.

Polaris brand oil is made for them by a company called Lubrication Technologies, Polaris has said so. They specialize in producing products under OEM brand names for the small engine market, e.g. powersports, lawn & garden, marine etc. You make side by sides and want an oil to market with your name on it, they can do it all. From oil design, package design, bottling, warehousing and shipping to your dealers. All the oem has to do it provide a minimum specification and set the price. Often though, the one who produces oil for the oem's is based solely on who has the lowest bid.

 

[jgue498]

Rotella T6!

I have almost 3000 miles on my 550 running Shell Rotella 5w-40, it still runs great and has no oil related issues, so it could have mozzarella cheese as a base stock and I could care less, just my 2 cents

Yup-great stuff! (Rotella T6 5-40) I run this on my 2 sporties, 4runner, several lawnmowers/small engines. Its meant for the dirtiest of engines, diesels-so its designed to minimize carbon buildup and comes out still golden (darker of course) but translucent, not black or grey like most other oils (castrol, mobil). Could probably still recycle it into an old lawnmower after 5K in the 4runner! :cowboy:

 

[al53]

The Rotella is a HDEO oil....heavy duty engine oil...it has a great add pack in it for anti wear and friction modifiers...it lacks a bit in the moly so i add a little ..been running this oil for years in my bike an my 87 suzuki lt250 4x4..now using it in the sportsman...I have good cold starts also in -18 ..they make an oil called Helix used in europe but not sold here that is a Group IV synthetic...that has nice UOA reports....some say since Shell owns Pennzoil now that the Pennzoil Ultra is the helix here...comes in 0-40 and 0-50 (soon) one is designated for the SVT hemi and one is the European version certified by BMW like the Mobil 1 european...both top notch oils...it all boils down to what works best for the machine and what you like...

I have used both Shell and Mobil 1 and no complaints...

 

[cruzinal38]

Chiming in here on lubricants. I have a lot of guys who thought Rotella was good for all the things mentioned in this forum, until they tried AMSOIL in the 2- & 4-stroke engines. There really is a difference in motor oils and if you want to keep your equipment running longer, cooler, perform better, think about the lubricants you are using and give AMSOIL a try. The worse thing it will do is perform as good, but I think it will do better than that. This is not coming from an AMSOIL dealer, which I am, but from a user who only wants the best for my equipment and has been a user for several years. Good trailing!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cariboo]

One question,
the oil seems to be better than 50 years ago.
Why the Intervals in North Amerika still the same than in the 60's?

 

[cruzinal38]

Original formulation was way ahead if it's time (1972) and now API is SN, AMSOIL is staying ahead of the completion with the additive package and the TBN. Other tier oils are XL (10k) and OE, mfg recommendation and beyond.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Miker]

There is no benefit to running diesel oil in a gas engine anymore. Since all modern diesel trucks have gone to a particulate filter and low ash motor oil(API CJ-4 SN, SM), most of the additives that were put into the Delos, Rotellas, etc. are reduced or gone.

Oils designed specifically for ATV's are not restricted by the EPA mandated oil spec's.

 

[hatzie]

There is no benefit to running diesel oil in a gas engine anymore. Since all modern diesel trucks have gone to a particulate filter and low ash motor oil(API CJ-4 SN, SM), most of the additives that were put into the Delos, Rotellas, etc. are reduced or gone.

Oils designed specifically for ATV's are not restricted by the EPA mandated oil spec's.

Show me a Rotella or Delo VOA absent the higher detergent levels... Diesel oil formulas are still being used in the still significant fleets of older engines so any diesel oil must keep the carbon etc suspended. After treatment doesn't clean up the combustion process itself just the exhaust.

From orbit via Android.

 

[bsutton.5]

Chiming in here on lubricants. I have a lot of guys who thought Rotella was good for all the things mentioned in this forum, until they tried AMSOIL in the 2- & 4-stroke engines. There really is a difference in motor oils and if you want to keep your equipment running longer, cooler, perform better, think about the lubricants you are using and give AMSOIL a try. The worse thing it will do is perform as good, but I think it will do better than that. This is not coming from an AMSOIL dealer, which I am, but from a user who only wants the best for my equipment and has been a user for several years. Good trailing!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like a sales pitch to me lol

My S3 addiction!!

 

[Miker]

fyi........................................

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency.

 

[al53]

Rotella just re vamped thier Rotella ..again....the reduced some of the anti wear adds a while back..but the sales rep who comes to our shop to take our order said they just revamped it again..and added more anti wear additives in it to the limits required.....with no adverse effects to converters...T6 is coming out in another weight also...maybe late summer...

in the long run any quality oil will work for us..Shell..Mobil..pennzoil...amsoil...I run amsoil fluids in my atv and shell oil...when Rotella is on sale for 18.00 a gallon I get 2 gallons..it does both atvs for a year with 2 oil changes..oil has come a long ways and will progress....making oil from Natural Gas is a big step since we have so much gas here...and diesel fuels also from gas

 

[jgue498]

What i see when draining Rotella, Mobil & Castrol

I've got a couple euro's which 'require' either mobil (porsche) or castrol (bmw). Then there is my honda mower, honda powerwash, B&S 20hp riding mower, polaris sportsmans, toyoto prius/4runner/camry which i run rotella t6 in.

I KNOW this isn't very scientific BUT when i drain the porsche and bmw's oil (always in 5k intervals) the oil comes out nearly black or a very dark chocolate brown none of which has any of the original translucent quality to them.

Now when i drain any of the other machines listed (cars at 5k), polaris at 50 hrs, others at least annually, which again all run rotella, I get an amber, still golden and very translucent oil-darker of course but you can still see through it-not sure what this means-who knows where to send oil for analysis? Yeah i know looks aren't everything but how do we explain the big difference in look between these 3 otherwise superior oils?

The bmw is up for a change in the next month, guess what oil its getting this time around? Don't get me wrong, I've used castrol for nearly 35 years with no engine issues, so i was hard to give that up!

 

[GaleHawkins]

The best motor oil today can be one of a dozen or more.

 

[hatzie]

I've got a couple euro's which 'require' either mobil (porsche) or castrol (bmw). Then there is my honda mower, honda powerwash, B&S 20hp riding mower, polaris sportsmans, toyoto prius/4runner/camry which i run rotella t6 in.

I KNOW this isn't very scientific BUT when i drain the porsche and bmw's oil (always in 5k intervals) the oil comes out nearly black or a very dark chocolate brown none of which has any of the original translucent quality to them.

Now when i drain any of the other machines listed (cars at 5k), polaris at 50 hrs, others at least annually, which again all run rotella, I get an amber, still golden and very translucent oil-darker of course but you can still see through it-not sure what this means-who knows where to send oil for analysis?

I use these guys.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

From orbit via Android.

 

[Miker]

Back to the OP. He made a comment about a law suit between Mobil and Castrol (BP). There was never any lawsuit, that is internet myth. Mobil claimed Castrol was engaged in false advertising.

In 1999 a decision by the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus set a strong precedence for a broader description in the marketing of synthetics. The NAD determined that the evidence presented by the advertiser constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil.

Mobil contended that Castrol misleads consumers that Syntec is a fully synthetic motor oil despite the fact that Syntec is no longer synthetic. The challenger alleged that after years of manufacturing Syntec with PAO, Castrol replaced the PAO, which had constituted nearly 70% of the volume of the product, with hydroprocessed mineral oil in approximately December 1997. As a result of an independent laboratory test conducted by Savant Inc., Mobil maintained that samples of Syntec purchased in June and December 1997 contained 93% and 80% PAO. Other samples of Syntec, one purchased in December 1997 and four purchased in 1998, contained no PAO, and instead contained 100% mineral oil.

Note - This ruling only exists in the USA, hence the term "German Castrol" because its all PAO and not like the same oil marketed in the USA.

Its all about the money, PAO cost a lot more and at the time Exxon/Mobil was and may still be the largest producer of PAO's.

PAO - Polyalphaolefin

API Group IV Polyalphaolefins, 100% Synthetic chemical compound. Specific type of olefin (organic) that is used as a base stock in some synthetic lubricants. poly-alpha-olefin (or poly-α-olefin, abbreviated as PAO), is a polymer made by polymerizing an alpha-olefin. An alpha-olefin (or α-olefin) is an alkene where the carbon-carbon double bond starts at the α-carbon atom, i.e. the double bond is between the #1 and #2 carbons in the molecule.