I'd make sure they document the issue and then run it pretty hard for a few hours/miles to see if there's any improvement. Make sure they understand you expect it to be corrected sooner rather than later if it don't straighten up on its own.

 

Excellent idea. Thank you. I verified that it is documented, and I think if trying a hotter plug, a colder plug and a few more hours doesn't help, I'll first insist that the service manager places a call to the factory. Something has changed in the five years since we got our first 570's.

 

I have a new 2019 570 sportsman with 2 1/2 hours on it and mine does not have that issue. When I brought mine home I replaced the plug with a ngk.

 

MR7F? MR8F? Did it have a Champion in it from the factory? Any particular reason you replaced it?
Thank you

 

Mr7f it had a champ in it in my experience champs are junk hope that helps!

 

Ok. I'll have the MR7F in it tomorrow morning and will report back. The back recesses of my fading memory also tell me to avoid Champion and use NGK's. Thank you.

 

Did you try the ngk? Did it help?

 

So far....pulled the original plug. It was a NGK MR7F gapped at 0.030". A bit dark in color. I had a new one (same NGK MR7F), I gapped it to 0.035", installed, ran it, and no changes. I added a cooler plug, NGK MR8F at 0.030", and it ran worse (more sputtering, more often, no backfires). My last thought is to get a hotter plug MR6F and try that.

 

That might work they must be putting champion plugs in one and ngk’s in others.

 

I think you're right. I pretty much have two options left: Hotter plug, or more breaking hours (4 now). Then, lean hard on the Service Manager to contact Polaris and fix this before the warranty period is up...

 

Here's the latest....I swapped plug and plug wire between sputtering ATV and non-sputtering ATV. No changes. Actually, the "non" sputtering one sputters a little bit at a lower rpm (3600-4000). Acceptable. I drove a friends' 570 EPS. 2017 with a hard 350 hours on it. Sputters worse than our worst one, and he never noticed it because he doesn't often stay at a constant RPM. Now, it bothers him also. So, I'm leaning more and more to a programming issue with the EFI. And, perhaps elevation-related here at 6000'. The stock NGK plug is a MR7F. The next range cooler is MR8F. However, one cannot get a MR6F hotter-than-stock plug. The closest option is NGK CPR6EA-9 which is similar in all specs, but stands about 0.1" higher above the head. Perhaps the female plug wire stinger will stand up 0.1" higher also, and there won't be a good dust and moisture seal between top of head and recessed plug. Waiting for new plug and will report back.

 

I would give Ryan from RVS PERFORMANCE a call he deals with efi issues all the time. He really knows what he is talking about!!!

 

So gregs for your issue I would work with your dealer and Polaris for the time being. but your buddy and im assuming hes out of warranty he should get a tune from RVSPerformance. remember these machines are tuned for compliance from the factory not efficiency.

 

EFI is supposed to compensate for air density automatically - carbs have to be jetted down above 4000 feet or they run too rich. What makes you think changing the heat range of the spark will affect a running condition? The heat range refers to the temperature the tip of the plug runs at when the engine is at normal operating temperature. The spark is the same intensity and temperature regardless of the heat range of the plug. Too hot; the plug can cause pre-ignition and lead to engine damage - too cold and it may foul more often - you can always run colder than recommended safely and going one step hotter is usually safe, but go two steps hotter and engine damage may happen especially when running at a constant or high speed. If after about 20 hours of operation the plug porcelain at the tip is tan, the heat range of the plug is right, black is too cold and white is too hot.

 

My 19 570 doesn’t have any kind of sputter, that I have noticed at any rpm. From 4 hours till the now 27 hours. It runs great down here at sea level.

 

Latest update on the misfires--latebird is right about the spark plugs. However, they were one of my only easy-swap options, and one range cooler and one range hotter plugs didn't solve the misfiring problem. Both the new problem ATV and new non-problem ATV's are at the dealer now (5 hours running time total each). Since the floor model they tested has the same misfiring issue, I thought they could swap parts between our two ATVs if they needed to further isolate the issue. The service manager will be working with Polaris factory on solving this. The dealership is 45 minutes away, so I try to do as much at home as possible before taking two round trips with a trailer. Stay tuned....

 

Any update on how you made out?

 

I like this idea. My wife's identical machine does the misfiring just a tad. Mine does it a lot. Never backfires. I wish they both acted the same. I'm going to pass the majority of your suggestion to the service leader and to MN Polaris. It is time for engineers at the factory to get involved.
Thank you,
Greg

 

My 2020 570 eps was doing that, constant throttle it would spit about every 3 seconds almost like I was decelerating, it finally quit after about 10 hours and a few wide open throttles. Now it’s smooth as butter. I think it has something to do with the fuel they put on them at the dealership and just let them sit there.

 

Ok, misfire mid-rpm problem finally solved! Here's a good one for you all....the factory lead the troubleshooting with the local dealership. In summary,
1) A new throttle body was pulled from a crated machine and installed on mine. No changes to the misfires. Original throttle body re-installed
2) A new ECM from the same crated machine was swapped with mine. No changes to misfires. Presumably (?), my ECM was put back in place with another test drive.
3) BOTH the same crated machine's throttle body AND ECM were simultaneously put on my machine, and problem solved.
I brought it back home today and did two short rides, and it ran flawlessly. About 8 hours and 100 miles on the almost new ATV.
The talented and head of service guy here has no clue why this fix worked (nor do I). And, obviously, the factory rep knew to suggest trying the 'matched' pair from the crated machine. I talked with another factory service guy who was substituting in for the main factory guy, and asked him if my [bad] parts were going back to the factory for root cause analysis, and if I would be able to get an answer as to why this worked. He said "we don't share that information".
What surprised me is that there would be some difference between my ECM and the crate ECM. What wouldn't surprise me would be cost cutting measures to produce a less expensive throttle body, and make up for this with the programming (ECM). What I'll never know is if there was a different code set between the ECM's.
Thoughts?
Greg

 

Ok, misfire mid-rpm problem finally solved! Here's a good one for you all....the factory lead the troubleshooting with the local dealership. In summary,
1) A new throttle body was pulled from a crated machine and installed on mine. No changes to the misfires. Original throttle body re-installed
2) A new ECM from the same crated machine was swapped with mine. No changes to misfires. Presumably (?), my ECM was put back in place with another test drive.
3) BOTH the same crated machine's throttle body AND ECM were simultaneously put on my machine, and problem solved.
I brought it back home today and did two short rides, and it ran flawlessly. About 8 hours and 100 miles on the almost new ATV.
The talented and head of service guy here has no clue why this fix worked (nor do I). And, obviously, the factory rep knew to suggest trying the 'matched' pair from the crated machine. I talked with another factory service guy who was substituting in for the main factory guy, and asked him if my [bad] parts were going back to the factory for root cause analysis, and if I would be able to get an answer as to why this worked. He said "we don't share that information".
What surprised me is that there would be some difference between my ECM and the crate ECM. What wouldn't surprise me would be cost cutting measures to produce a less expensive throttle body, and make up for this with the programming (ECM). What I'll never know is if there was a different code set between the ECM's.
Thoughts?
Greg

Greg,
Based on your description I'm trying to understand the basic logic of what the dealer did. Let's also proceed on the basis that they potentially didn't tell you everything that they did as well.
If it was something as simple as reflashing the ECU I'm sure they would have tried that...so let's say that they tried that and that obviously didn't work. So programming may have not been the
issue if they swapped a brand new 2020 updated ECU with your 2020 updated ECU. So, by putting the new throttle body on from the machine they grabbed the ECU from...I'm assuming that
the IAC and the TPS sensor were from the other machine as well. It might have been a bad TPS sensor or IAC on your machine that was rectified by swapping out the throttle body. Just food
for thought. If you weren't in the shop the whole time it's real hard to verify what they actually did versus...the lip service that they give you once the problem is fixed. I get it...the machine is under warranty...so they are obligated to fix it..and all you want to do is ride the expensive toy that you can't ride.
Personally, my machine is a 16' 570 and I've had it to the dealer a couple of times since it has been out of warranty...but no matter where I bring it...I always feel like I'm getting screwed royally with
half ass workmanship at outrageous labor costs.
So, I decided..screw it...and bought the service manual and bought the OTB diagnostic tool that hooks up to a laptop so from now on I can diagnose and fix the majority of my own problems, source out the parts at a fraction of the cost, and not deal with the rape artists at the dealer.

 

Good thoughts. I'm going to side with the dealership on this one. The diagnosis was run by the guy in charge of the service dept. We came by five years ago with our 2015 570 which wouldn't re-start when hot, but did start after a half hour. After a few of his guys looked at it and shook their heads, he says "I have an idea". He traced the fuel overflow tube to a pinched spot at the front of the frame, and nailed it. Re-flashing the ECU was the first thing tried before involvement from factory. I'm under the impression that turnover rate is high among service techs.

Back to understanding the issue recently solved. Because the folks in the forum here, the dealership, and I have invested so much time into this, I still want to get to the bottom of it all. I'm tenacious. I have my old expensive 2015 570 manual, popped off the seat of these 2020 570's, and verified that the new throttle bodies are very similar to the ones in my manual. Please critique:

Throttle body: there's the rider-controlled throttle cable coming in on the left, and TPS/IAC sensors on the right. The TPS ("Throttle Position Sensor") measures the throttle plate position selected by the rider's thumb. This is one signal sent to the ECU. The IAC ("Air Idle Control") sort-of-bypasses the TPS to control idle at cold (start up) and after warm-up. The TMAP (mounted between throttle body and engine intake) senses the passing of air and manifold pressure. I have the advantage of comparing our two identical new 570's, and it looks like the TMAP sensor was never messed with during the entire diagnosis process. Same dust in same spots.

The ECU receives (among other inputs): crankshaft position, engine speed, throttle position (from TPS), coolant temperature (same on both machines), air intake temperature (from IAC?), air flow (from TMAP), intake manifold absolute pressure (from TMAP), and battery voltage. This data is mapped to some constants in the ECU, and the output is fuel injector action.

My goal is to have an intelligent conversation with the original factory guy who led the effort and see if I can understand why, after recommending separate swaps of throttle body and ECU, why at the end would recommend going back and swapping both as a pair. At this juncture, I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough differences in throttle body production variances that perhaps there's a constant mapped into the ECU that matches ECU to two or three different performance aspects of throttle bodies. When reflashing, this constant would be left alone.

Where did you get your OTB diagnostic tool, and if you could share, the cost?

Greg

 

Greg,
I think you have a pretty good grasp at this point of the "workings". Your're probably right with your statement "At this juncture, I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough differences in throttle body production variances that perhaps there's a constant mapped into the ECU that matches ECU to two or three different performance aspects of throttle bodies. When reflashing, this constant would be left alone". At least the problem is solved and your back riding again. But I'd be the same way...I'd want to know exactly what caused the issue and why.

As for the diagnostic tool, I bought directly from their site for $399.00, plus you need your own laptop. The tools allows you to read any codes that may be popping up on your machine (whether they are being displayed on the machine console or not) and through the software it gives you step by step on items to check that could be causing the error/code. It also allows you to view all of the important info in real time whether the machine is running or not to help make sure things/settings are where they need to be. As per the statement in the service manual...most of the EFI issues are electrical/wiring related. It helps track down problems quickly. OTB also sells replacement heavier duty "splice in" wiring pigtail connections that go to the various sensors/connection on the machines. The cheap Chinese wiring on these machines tend to be a problem down the road (like I said mine is a 16' and I just started having wiring issues this year)

Diagnostic Tools - Polaris - OTB Powersports

otbpowersports.com

 

Thanks Nbonugli:
I've got a call in to the factory guy with my seven digit reference code. And I hope I can get more detail.
We've found our best trade-in point for these--we ride them about 300 hours and 3000 miles, and at that point, they're a year away from needing new tires and a brake fluid flush, and they still jump a bit when the clutch grabs the belt starting out in H or L, so the belts are still reliable. For the most part, these have been reliable machines with good power and suspension. And thank you for the tip about the diagnostic tool. Sounds like a good investment, and I hope will work with other Polaris', as we have a number of Razors in our group. Chinese wiring....uggh....hopefully that commitment will end soon and it'll get done here in the USA.
Greg

 

A long, long time ago I worked as a tech at a SAAB dealer. We had a car that would start and rpm would fluctuate at idle when cold. The fix was a new ecm that was delivered by the factory rep.

I am guessing something was in that particular one that wasn't available for general deployment.

This was back in 1989.