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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everybody, I’m new to this forum. I’ve had my 2000 Scramvler 400 4x4 for a year and a half or so now. A while back I was pulling my buddy’s RZR out of some mud, and his winch rope ending up getting under my front left wheel and breaking the magnetic hub wires. No big deal, there was enough workable wire left to repair it. I got it fixed up and all was well until a couple weekends ago when a stick got in there and broke it again. I wasn’t able to repair the wires this time. I ordered a OEM hub coil. I just got done replacing it. I followed service manual procedures, set the tolerance of the ring that goes around the coil to 2-3 thou, and put it back together. I tried to test it out though and that wheel still won’t spin in 4x4. Besides the coil being a dud out of the box, what else could be the issue? Thanks for your time everybody.


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My manual shows that clearance to be 0.0-.001 You might have the armature plate too far away from the magnet. Test the magnet first though.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What is the procedure to test it? Would my tolerance being a little loose make it totally not work or just not work very well?


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Discussion Starter #4
Update: I ohmed my coil wires. Either my multi meter is malfunctioning or I accidentally cut the wires during ring installation. With my multi meter on the buzzer function, it buzzes immediately. On the up to 200ohm function, I get 0. I also tightened up the clearance on the ring to the coil, that didn’t help either. There was no pull on the clutch ring with the key and 4x4 on, and I could easily turn the clutch assembly by hand. I ordered another coil, it’ll be here in a couple days. Hopefully it fixes my issue, I really want my 4x4 to work for my trip to Ride Royal Blue next weekend!


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Does the buzzer sound when there is a connection or when there isn't one. Mine makes noise only when there is a connection. So there should be continuity between the 2 wires, but not between either of them and ground. With just the switch on the coil wouldn't be activated. There are sensors that need 6% slippage at the rear wheels before the fronts activate. If you want to test the coil, provide a 12v source to the power side and a good ground on the other side.

I can look at my wiring diagrams if you want to. Don't have it in front of me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My buzzer sounds with continuity. I also checked with my continuity light. I didn’t think to check continuity to ground, I will do that next. This is the first I’m hearing of there being slippage sensors. With the quad running on jack stands, the moment I put it in gear the functioning front wheel starts turning with the rears. The seem locked together just by eye, but I honestly don’t know for sure. Also, as I mentioned in my original post, the 4x4 worked perfectly before the first broken wire incident, and continued to work perfectly once I repaired them. Wishing I would’ve realized there was lots of slack wire for the original coil tucked inside the loom and just repaired them again. :banging head:


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Yeah, the slippage thing is the On Demand part of the 4X4. Not sure how but it detects the difference between the rear wheel speed and the ground speed. That is why the testing is done with all four wheels off the ground....so the rears "spin" without any forward movement of the machine.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ahh okay. I’ll check the ground continuity and I’ll put power to it before work tomorrow. I’m pretty much convinced the coil is bad or I screwed up though because it worked flawlessly before.


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I'm going through issues with my '01 sportsman now. You should get an ohm reading when checking at the connector going to the coil. Power to the connector is only on when the key is on, awd is on and the gear selector in in drive.

In my case the right frt hub was dry, so I filled it with hub oil. The resultant goo was to slick to allow the Hilliard clutch to operate properly. Found out my coil has magnetism, just need to install new seals, clean everything up and put it back together.

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Discussion Starter #10
No continuity with ground, and the coil doesn’t work when I put power to either wire. Must’ve just been a dud


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Yeah, the slippage thing is the On Demand part of the 4X4. Not sure how but it detects the difference between the rear wheel speed and the ground speed. That is why the testing is done with all four wheels off the ground....so the rears "spin" without any forward movement of the machine.
The slippage is mostly detected by the drive ratios and tire sizes. The front drives slower than the rear so the front is basically freewheeling - when the rear starts slipping, the drive starts turning faster than the front wheels are turning, so the Hilliard clutch is activated by the armature attracted to the magnet coil and the front wheels start 'lock' and the front pulls while the rear is slipping - when the slipping on the rear stops, the front wheels again start turning faster than the drive line components and the front drive unlocks again by the action of the armature of the Hilliard clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
As much as I love Yamaha, it’s really more for their 2 strokes. If I get a different 4x4 quad it’ll either be a new Scrambler 1000, or a 750 Rincon. Not sure about the new scramblers but the rincon I believe is true 4x4.


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Discussion Starter #15
Yeah, the slippage thing is the On Demand part of the 4X4. Not sure how but it detects the difference between the rear wheel speed and the ground speed. That is why the testing is done with all four wheels off the ground....so the rears "spin" without any forward movement of the machine.


The slippage is mostly detected by the drive ratios and tire sizes. The front drives slower than the rear so the front is basically freewheeling - when the rear starts slipping, the drive starts turning faster than the front wheels are turning, so the Hilliard clutch is activated by the armature attracted to the magnet coil and the front wheels start 'lock' and the front pulls while the rear is slipping - when the slipping on the rear stops, the front wheels again start turning faster than the drive line components and the front drive unlocks again by the action of the armature of the Hilliard clutch.


Couldn’t I change my change my rear sprocket sizing to make the front and rear wheels turn equally? Or am I missing something here


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Yep, you could mess around for months trying to get that right or just bypass the sensors and run 12v from a switched source to the 4X4 switch and down to the hubs. Then if you turn the 4x4 on, both coils will be energized. It does make the machine harder to steer though so be warned.

This system works fine and has been in existence for years. The only thing you don't want to do is engage the fronts when the rears are already spinning. Harsh engagement will break stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Mine may have already had that done to it actually. I know the wiring has been messed with, but I’ve never ripped the harness apart to investigate. I’ve just been leaving well enough alone. But whether I’m crawling around on pavement or in mud, if I’ve got the 4x4 switch on, it’s much more difficult to turn the bars.

Maybe you could explain why I can’t really use it as 3 wheel drive? Both times I broke the left coil wire, I was spinning, so of course I continued trying to get where I was going! But I found that if I spin too fast with one front hub not working, there’s a lot of god awful clunking and banging in the front end. Based on what you’ve told me so far, it shouldn’t make a difference whether only one hub has load or not, because the drivetrain is constantly turning anyway, right?


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Discussion Starter #18
Okay guys new problem. I got my new coil, was getting ready to put it on, when I thought I’d test the current one again for shits and giggles. I jumped it to a my headlight wire, and I could hear the coil clicking. But it wasn’t locking the hub to the axle. So I tried the side that works. Same result. Thought maybe I wasn’t getting enough amps from the headlight wire, so I jumped to a car battery. Same result, both sides. So I can’t manually make either hub lock, and one for sure works when I’m riding it. Now I’m thinking there’s a possibility that my coil isn’t bad. I definitely don’t want to replace it for no reason. Thoughts?


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Maybe we are missing something here............

You mentioned turning the Hilliard by hand? Maybe you are are testing incorrectly.

From the service manual:
With the Polaris All Wheel Drive System activated (AWD selected), the machine operates as a 2 wheel drive vehicle until the rear wheels lose traction. If the rear wheels lose traction the front wheel rotational speed will decrease, causing the front drive axle speed to exceed front wheel speed. Restricting the rotation of the drive clutch roller cage (2) (see Electric Hub Operation) will cause the rollers (3) to climb the ramps of the cam(5), and become squeezed between the ramps and the ring in the hub. See illustration #1. When the hub clutch assembly, wheel hub, and drive axle are engaged, the front wheels will drive and stay engaged until rear wheel traction is regained.
When traction is regained, the front wheels will overdrive the hub clutch, pushing the clutch rollers (3) toward the lower part of the cam (5), disengaging the clutch. The rollers are held in place by the spring (4). See illustration #2. The tension of this spring is critical to AWD hub operation. Always use the correct spring (refer to appropriate parts manual) and use installation tool PN 2870888.

WARNING
It is important that the front and rear axle drive ratio and tire size are not changed. Changing this ratio will cause erratic engagement, which could result in a loss of vehicle control and serious injury or death.

When AWD is selected in a forward gear, current flows through a coil of wire located in the strut housing, creating a magnetic field. An armature plate (1) coupled to the roller cage (2) is attracted to the magnetic field, and resists rotation, creating drag on the drive roller cage assembly. This causes the roller to climb the ramps of the cam, engaging the hub. NOTE: In reverse gear the override button must be pushed to deliver power to the wheel coil. Electric hub engagement offers an advantage over
mechanical systems. When the AWD button is switched off, the machine will have the steering ease of a 2 wheel drive unit; and with the switch turned on, all wheel drive will be engaged whenever the rear wheels lose traction.

Hopefully you are testing with all 4 wheels off the ground and the front wheels mounted - it is possible the front hub is worn out and needs replaced - even if all is the parts were new and known to be working correctly, a worn hub could prevent the Hilliard from locking up.

It's a pain, but you might try swapping the hubs. If the problem moves, replace the hub - if not, continue to troubleshoot the non-working side.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you for that excerpt from the manual. When I test the AWD by starting the engine and putting it in gear, of course I have all 4 wheels off the ground. When I have tested the coils by manually putting power and ground to then, just the front wheels are off the ground. No need to have the rear end up too as I’m not dealing with anything besides the coils themselves having power.

As far as the hub being worn, I really don’t think that’s possible. My AWD worked perfectly until the wire broke, I repaired it, worked perfectly again until the wire broke. Then I decided to replace the coil as I thought there was no more wire slack to repair with. I didn’t realize it was up inside the loom until it was too late. The front right wheel still works perfectly fine while riding the quad. I just wasn’t able to make it work by manually putting power to it.

I really think that the coil was just bad out of the box. But since I got the same result on the manual test with both the working and non working hubs, I’m questioning if there’s anything else that could be wrong, or if I was somehow testing incorrectly. Re replacing that coil is going to be a huge pain. I sealed the hub up good, and used a lot of really good adhesive caulking to keep the wire tight to the spindle until it goes into the loom. I did that to prevent the possibility of a stick getting in there and breaking the wires again


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