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Discussion Starter #1
So with the majority of aftermarket tires, radials at least, being a good amount heavier than the stock setup, I was wondering where Power loss starts to come into play. In some setups your adding 30 plus pounds of rotational mass to your machine, are the advantages really that great to where guys want to sacrifice motor performance for the better grip of heavy tires? What do you guys think? I know some of you guys run tire setups that added quite a lot of extra weigh to your machines, I'm interested to know the pro and cons.

Also was wondering about tire height vs tire weight. If you have a tire that's taller, but lighter than a tire the next size down, which one cause the most loss in power or acceleration? The taller tire in theory should provide taller gearing correct, but the smaller tire weighs more.
 

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Its a fine balance between traction, durability, and power loss. That is exactly why I choose the BH 2.0's and went to a 14" beadlock. I was able to retain most of my power lossed by the wheel weight and diameter increase with the addition of a QSC clutch kit. My traction was increased ten fold. The tire durability was also increased considerably over OEM, I would say with the 300 miles I had put on my stockers I had 20 plugs in the tires and probably every other ride I was doing a trailside clinic on tire plugging. So for me a tire upgrade was necessity and I had no choice but to get a heavier and larger tire over OEM.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Its a fine balance between traction, durability, and power loss. That is exactly why I choose the BH 2.0's and went to a 14" beadlock. I was able to retain most of my power lossed by the wheel weight and diameter increase with the addition of a QSC clutch kit. My traction was increased ten fold. The tire durability was also increased considerably over OEM, I would say with the 300 miles I had put on my stockers I had 20 plugs in the tires and probably every other ride I was doing a trailside clinic on tire plugging. So for me a tire upgrade was necessity and I had no choice but to get a heavier and larger tire over OEM.

Good info B P. I would love the extra traction, but want to keep performance as well, so like you said a fine line indeed. I think I'll stay with 25" though.
 

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The traction is definitely worth the power loss. And I'm speaking from a stand point of little to no power to begin with. adding larger heavier tires to a 500cc+ machine is sometime not even noticed, but to step up in both size and mass with a smaller machine the difference in power is substantial. but I would never go back to the stock tires. I am able to crawl through stuff in 2wd that took AWD and a lot of body english and multiple attempts to get through with the stock tires.

Where the stock tires would spin, my current tires just grab and go.

for most machines there are clutch mods that you can do to get the power loss back and some times then some. Especially in the 500cc+ sizes.

The stock tires are ok, but I'll never put more than a couple hundred miles on stock tires again. There is just to much advantage to after market tires. My plan is to swap the current tires onto the 570 I'm getting next year. and throwing the stock tires from that onto the Hawkeye. Let me Step son run on those for a while before replacing buying a new set of after market tires for the 570 and moving the STI's back to the Hawkeye.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
The traction is definitely worth the power loss. And I'm speaking from a stand point of little to no power to begin with. adding larger heavier tires to a 500cc+ machine is sometime not even noticed, but to step up in both size and mass with a smaller machine the difference in power is substantial. but I would never go back to the stock tires. I am able to crawl through stuff in 2wd that took AWD and a lot of body english and multiple attempts to get through with the stock tires.

Where the stock tires would spin, my current tires just grab and go.

for most machines there are clutch mods that you can do to get the power loss back and some times then some. Especially in the 500cc+ sizes.

The stock tires are ok, but I'll never put more than a couple hundred miles on stock tires again. There is just to much advantage to after market tires. My plan is to swap the current tires onto the 570 I'm getting next year. and throwing the stock tires from that onto the Hawkeye. Let me Step son run on those for a while before replacing buying a new set of after market tires for the 570 and moving the STI's back to the Hawkeye.

I guess what I was getting at also is there a line where a heavier tire that grabs better actually makes you quicker by propelling you forward than a lighter tire with less traction that's more prone to spin or grab less. In your dig your ruining one of the tires I'm looking at, the Black Diamond ATR.
 

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I guess what I was getting at also is there a line where a heavier tire that grabs better actually makes you quicker by propelling you forward than a lighter tire with less traction that's more prone to spin or grab less. In your dig your ruining one of the tires I'm looking at, the Black Diamond ATR.[/QUOTE

Where did he dig the BD Atrs? If you are reading the part about the power loss, he is talking about being on a hawkeye which I believe is a 300cc machine. What size machine are you on Roboo? I have been looking at this a bit myself since I do not want to run the factory tires too much longer. I personally haven't had an issue with the factory Carlisle 489s on my 570 touring as far as punctures go and traction has been good, but being my first ATV I have nothing to compare it against. But my buddy's wife's ACE has had a couple of punctures and one tire had a slow leak. If you are sticking to the 25" tires, there are some tires out there that are not drastically heavier than stockers. However, I kind of think that you are sacrificing something to maintain that lower weight. Maybe in the sidewall? Of all the things I have read on the Black Diamonds, I have only seen one post that a guy didn't like them. I don't remeber specifically why. I have been looking at the STI Outbacks, BD XTR & ATRs, Kenda Bear Claw HTRs, and Carlisle Black Rocks. Regardless of what I get, I think the clutch kit will happen regardless of the tire weight. I haven't heard any reason not to do it, outside of money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I guess what I was getting at also is there a line where a heavier tire that grabs better actually makes you quicker by propelling you forward than a lighter tire with less traction that's more prone to spin or grab less. In your dig your ruining one of the tires I'm looking at, the Black Diamond ATR.[/QUOTE

Where did he dig the BD Atrs? If you are reading the part about the power loss, he is talking about being on a hawkeye which I believe is a 300cc machine. What size machine are you on Roboo? I have been looking at this a bit myself since I do not want to run the factory tires too much longer. I personally haven't had an issue with the factory Carlisle 489s on my 570 touring as far as punctures go and traction has been good, but being my first ATV I have nothing to compare it against. But my buddy's wife's ACE has had a couple of punctures and one tire had a slow leak. If you are sticking to the 25" tires, there are some tires out there that are not drastically heavier than stockers. However, I kind of think that you are sacrificing something to maintain that lower weight. Maybe in the sidewall? Of all the things I have read on the Black Diamonds, I have only seen one post that a guy didn't like them. I don't remeber specifically why. I have been looking at the STI Outbacks, BD XTR & ATRs, Kenda Bear Claw HTRs, and Carlisle Black Rocks. Regardless of what I get, I think the clutch kit will happen regardless of the tire weight. I haven't heard any reason not to do it, outside of money.
Well that was some bad auto correct. I meant to say in your sig your running one of the tires I'm looking at....lol. But I have a 750 Kawasaki right now. I do like drag racing and stuff like that thus being a bit conscious of adding a ton of tire weight.
 

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The 570 will handle any 26" tire you want to put on it with ease, no need to worry about a clutch lit. The difference between a "light" tire and a good tire is usually about a total of 10 lbs. or less for the set, which makes zero difference to your atv performance. I guarantee you couldn't feel the difference with the extra 10 lbs. of rotating mass. You will feel a difference between the OEM tires, and any aftermarket tire. If you are worried about losing a little top speed and maybe a slight amount of acceleration, you shouldn't be riding a utility quad. You want speed, ride a sport quad.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The 570 will handle any 26" tire you want to put on it with ease, no need to worry about a clutch lit. The difference between a "light" tire and a good tire is usually 10 lbs. or less, which makes zero difference to your atv performance. I guarantee you couldn't feel the difference with the extra 10 lbs. of rotating mass. You will feel a difference between the OEM tires, and any aftermarket tire. If you are worried about losing a little top speed and maybe a slight amount of acceleration, you shouldn't be riding a utility quad. You want speed, ride a sport quad.
Where I ride, we run pretty fast with a variety of machines, and do ice drags in the winter. I Found a good deal on the Beatclaw HTR I'm leaning towards those in the stock sizing. Even if they are heavier, the tread pattern looks excellent for snow and sand.
 

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The 570 will handle any 26" tire you want to put on it with ease, no need to worry about a clutch lit. The difference between a "light" tire and a good tire is usually 10 lbs. or less, which makes zero difference to your atv performance. I guarantee you couldn't feel the difference with the extra 10 lbs. of rotating mass. You will feel a difference between the OEM tires, and any aftermarket tire. If you are worried about losing a little top speed and maybe a slight amount of acceleration, you shouldn't be riding a utility quad. You want speed, ride a sport quad.
Where I ride, we run pretty fast with a variety of machines, and do ice drags in the winter. I Found a good deal on the Beatclaw HTR I'm leaning towards those in the stock sizing. Even if they are heavier, the tread pattern looks excellent for snow and sand.
They have been a great tire for everything I have ridden this year. I haven't found any conditions that they don't excel in.
 

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I have 3 sets of Black Diamond XTR's. I have two 850's with QSC clutches and a 500HO. I can spin the 850's at will and in gravel or sand the 500's. Never noticed the weight. Just as a side note, you are on an extreme diet yourself to lower the weight as well right? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have 3 sets of Black Diamond XTR's. I have two 850's with QSC clutches and a 500HO. I can spin the 850's at will and in gravel or sand the 500's. Never noticed the weight. Just as a side note, you are on an extreme diet yourself to lower the weight as well right? ;)
Sure, I'm on a very low Cal diet.........:bsflag:
 

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I have absolutely 0 complaints for the ATR's. I would have gone with the XTR's but was already pushing the limits with weight and size by jumping up to 25" tires on the Hawkeye. Even had some minor rubbing issues on the foot well on one side till I fixed some bad bushings. The majority of the power loss was the jump up in tires size. the weight difference was if I remember right less than 5 lbs a tire. Don't get me wrong, The Hawkeye in all it's 17hp of gutless glory can still spin the 25" tires if you know what you're doing. But the amount of traction I gained was well worth the loss of top end. I still stick with the big boys on the tight trails. The only time I notice the lack of power on the Hawkeye is on open service roads.

I don't feel that rotational mass drastically effects acceleration so much as it effects stopping. and I've notice no reduction in stopping ability so even then it's not such a big jump that it's unmanageable. But InrBigness brings up a good point. There is so much extra weight that we put on these machines besides the tires that has just as much, if not more effect on the top end than tire weight does.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have absolutely 0 complaints for the ATR's. I would have gone with the XTR's but was already pushing the limits with weight and size by jumping up to 25" tires on the Hawkeye. Even had some minor rubbing issues on the foot well on one side till I fixed some bad bushings. The majority of the power loss was the jump up in tires size. the weight difference was if I remember right less than 5 lbs a tire. Don't get me wrong, The Hawkeye in all it's 17hp of gutless glory can still spin the 25" tires if you know what you're doing. But the amount of traction I gained was well worth the loss of top end. I still stick with the big boys on the tight trails. The only time I notice the lack of power on the Hawkeye is on open service roads.

I don't feel that rotational mass drastically effects acceleration so much as it effects stopping. and I've notice no reduction in stopping ability so even then it's not such a big jump that it's unmanageable. But InrBigness brings up a good point. There is so much extra weight that we put on these machines besides the tires that has just as much, if not more effect on the top end than tire weight does.

Well I ended up with the Black Diamonds, due to getting them for $190 cheaper than the HTR Bearclaw. For that savings I couldn't say no, and I got them on STI HD3 wheels. I have read some reports of them being stiff so we shall see how they ride, but they will be a big step up over my stock 2 ply Dumlops that fold over in corners.
 

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I've had 0 issues with them. They are stiff enough to run at 0 psi (don't ask how I know :dunce:) but still soft enough that my midsize machine has a nice smooth ride.

The biggest issues with the stiffness was with 14" rims where they were popping off the bead. What size did you go with on the 850's? If you stepped up to a larger Diameter tire than you should be fine with the side walls. But the issues the other guy was having could also have been an issue with the wheels in combination with the tires. Note: not everyone's experience is equal.

I know Thor at theatvsuperstore has run them for a while now, and last I heard they were one of the best tires he's ever run.

My experience with tires is limited to the stocks, and these, and these are night and day better than the stock tires.
 

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Well I ended up with the Black Diamonds, due to getting them for $190 cheaper than the HTR Bearclaw. For that savings I couldn't say no, and I got them on STI HD3 wheels. I have read some reports of them being stiff so we shall see how they ride, but they will be a big step up over my stock 2 ply Dumlops that fold over in corners.
Let us know what you think about them. Post up some pics too! Where did u buy from and what size? $190 is pretty significant savings!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've had 0 issues with them. They are stiff enough to run at 0 psi (don't ask how I know :dunce:) but still soft enough that my midsize machine has a nice smooth ride.

The biggest issues with the stiffness was with 14" rims where they were popping off the bead. What size did you go with on the 850's? If you stepped up to a larger Diameter tire than you should be fine with the side walls. But the issues the other guy was having could also have been an issue with the wheels in combination with the tires. Note: not everyone's experience is equal.

I know Thor at theatvsuperstore has run them for a while now, and last I heard they were one of the best tires he's ever run.

My experience with tires is limited to the stocks, and these, and these are night and day better than the stock tires.
This isn't on a Polaris, it's on a Kawasaki Brute Force. I got them in the stock 25x8 and 25x10 on 12 inch rims. I'm excited to run them, going riding in Northern Michigan this weekend.
 

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you'll be fine with the 12" rims. it's the 14" rims that had issues with the Black Diamonds. Mine leak because of bent rims. I just haven't done anything about it yet because I'm to damn busy. When I tear the front end apart to rebuild the diff, I'll be breaking the beads and adding bead seal and some RVT to help prevent crap from getting stuck between the rim and the tire.
 

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So let me add a question. When it comes to tire weight/size. At what point does a tire become to heavy? Lets just say for 570 and below. I told from the jeep friends I had when I lived in Vegas, that tire size not only will affect the performance of the engine, without regearing in the axle, but when you have large over sized tires such as 35" and a factory axle like a dana 35 (small and weaker) that was in some of the older jeeps you are asking for trouble when it comes to actually off roading in it. So at what point does a tire become to heavy or too big for the factory axles on a ATV for trail use? I had seen a video or post somewhere a while back where I think it was saying that about 27 lbs in the rear was about what the person was comfortable with and that was on a 570 RZR. I think it may have been a ATV magazine youtube video.
 
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