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First used oil analysis - Schaeffer's Racing 5w50

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31K views 24 replies 15 participants last post by  GaleHawkins  
#1 ·
So I`m a self-declared bonafide oil nut. I test the oil on every engine I own except my push lawn mowers, and have been for years. I won`t admit this to my wife, but I`ve tested about 50 samples of oil of all types and in all types of engines. I could hardly wait to get enough hours on my new Scrambler to send in an oil sample to see how things looked.

The back story here is that I went a little nuts trying to find just the right oil for the Scrambler after I bought it. I am familiar with almost all known, available brands and types of oil known in the United States and some only available in Europe. I settled on Schaeffer`s Supreme 9000 Racing 5w50 for my new baby. It is a nice blend of PAO "real" synthetic and group III "fake" synthetic with a huge anti-wear additive pack. Schaeffer`s markets this oil as a dirt-track racing oil and let me tell you, it will indeed get`er done!

So on to the sample. Reading the comments from Blackstone Labs, they don`t get many of these engines in, so they aren`t real clear on what the average engine should look like, but it`s hard to find fault with this sample. Wear metals are extremely low, especially considering the abuse this engine takes during a race. Speaking of that, this sample of 10 engine hours included one 90 minute race and a two hour practice session and the rest just putting around.

Look down the chart to molybdenum, you won`t find it in regular oils made for motorcycle and atv use because of the wet clutch in many engines. Well, our engines don`t have wet clutches, so why run an oil made for one? I wanted to take advantage of the lower friction offered with a good dose of moly.

Even further down is the potentially bad stuff, silicon, and sodium. Essentially silicon is dirt ingested into the engine through the air intake. My number isn`t too bad for a machine run in dirt. I`ve become comfortable with higher numbers than that for many of my quads. Sodium is another matter, it`s in anti-freeze, and it`s a bad thing when it shows up on a used oil analysis. Most oils don`t use sodium as an additive so when it`s there it`s because of a leaking head gasket. It isn`t too bad in this sample so I won`t push the panic button just yet, but it is definitely something I will watch in future samples.

At the bottom of the list are the two things I look for most in oil for my quads, potassium and zinc, and this oil has them in spades. These two elements are the primary anti-wear additives in most motor oil. Oils designed for modern car and truck engines have less than 1,000 parts per million of these two, but you can see the Schaeffer`s is a real racing oil, designed to protect an engine during critical boundary lubrication states. In other words, when I push the throttle instantly open and the piston jumps toward bottom dead center on the power stroke and pushes most of the oil out of the rod and main bearings, this oil will provide a sacrificial layer of zinc and potassium to protect the parts from rubbing metal-to-metal. Me likey :thumb .

At the section on the very bottom you can see that the oil is still a 50 weight oil, even after 10 hours of abuse in the engine. That may sound like a short time, but in my experience, most oil will shear down one grade in 2 to 3 hours of hard use in my racing engines. On my quads with a wet clutch and shared sump with the transmission, I change the oil every 3 hours. The 100 hour oil change interval suggested by Polaris is complete insanity.

Another problem with this sample is the fuel dilution. 4.8% is a bunch. This engine wasn`t fully warmed up before I took the sample and may be the cause of the high fuel number, but I`ll have to watch it in future analysis. I plan to take the next sample cold to try and see if that makes a difference, one thing`s for sure, this engine isn`t running lean.

I didn`t mean this to sound like oil analysis 101, I hope I didn`t insult anyone`s intelligence by my tone. It`s just that most of the stuff I read on the internet and most of the stuff I`m told by people in person about oil is completely false. Over the past decade I`ve taken the time and money to analyze oil and know for sure how different types of oil work in different engines. I don`t know everything and learn often about oil and engines.

If you have questions or comments or most certainly advice, I`d be happy to know it.

Most importantly, I encourage all of y`all to do a used oil analysis on your engine with your oil so that you will know what`s going on inside; sure beats guessing.

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#2 ·
Those are some pretty good numbers for an engine that isn't really even broke in yet. Heck it looks like you have virtually zero bearing wear (lead, tin and almost no copper) thus far. I'm a fan of high zinc oils myself. Too bad on most modern vehicles the catalytic converters & downstream O2 sensors are so sensitive to that. Almost all "car" oil brands have virtually no zinc. I too use oil analysis, mostly to get the most mileage out the oil without sacrificing the engine. Knowledge it great! Thanks for posting this up.
 
#3 ·
Nice review with data to boot! Thanks for posting that up. The flash point of your sample seems lower then they were expecting but seems to be contributed by the higher fuel dilution. Even with the dilution though the oil seems to hold up well. How much does it cost to have them run a sample and how much do they need to get a good test? Do you just collect it during the draining of the crankcase?
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the info.... personally I've never done an oil analysis, and frankly don't even know what those numbers really break down to in meaning.

Any good links to read to school myself on oil analysis numbers? Or maybe a book.... "Oil Analysis for Dummies"

I wouldn't mind doing this on the new machine and daily drivers to see what's going on inside..... if I knew how to translate the data!!

Thanks
 
#5 ·
#12 ·
#7 ·
That's an old myth. Nothing wrong with using synthetic from day one. Polaris ships them from the factory with synthetic in them. Lots of new cars come with synthetic from the factory too.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 
#8 ·
I found this post enlightening, not a 101 by any means. I would be curious to see the analysis of mine :thinking:
 
#14 ·
amsoil is an over rated, over priced synthetic oil. Save yourself some time and money and go with Mobile-1 or some other big name fully synthetic oil. Nothing bigger and better about amsoil other that the price. Higher price doesn't mean better oil.
 
#15 ·
I would think a 15w50 would give lots of wear at start up. I use 0w40 mobil 1 and have not had any issues. I live in northern Indian so you want a very low vis oil, especially in the winter...could prob run a 5w40 or 50 in summer but it will still give more wear at start up and nothing more at operating temp. If your engine is loose you might want a thicker oil to keep pressure up but that is the only good reason I could think of.
 
#16 ·
It really depends what kind of temperatures you see where you live.

Here in MN, a 15W would be way too thick in the winter and cause a lot of unnecessary wear during cold starts so a 0 or 5W would definitely be preferred.

I you live in the south where it's much warmer, a 15W would be just fine.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 
#18 ·
KD0AXS is correct, read the All About Oil link on the first page. Most of the "synthetics" on the market today, including most of the Mobil 1 oil is group III hydrocracked dino oil. Amsoil is a true, group IV, synthetic and it will cost more. I don't think this makes Mobil 1 bad, but it does make Amsoil better. Group IV synthetics have significant advantages and Amsoil has a very robust additive pack when compared to most other oils. Schaeffers (my favorite)being the exception, it's add pack is even more robust than Amsoil from what I've seen. Amsoil uses very little to no moly, especially in their powersports oil, no reason to use a JASO-MA wet clutch oil in these engines, might as well use something with friction modifiers to help our with wear. I can't argue against Mobil 1 0w40, it is a proven oil for many applications including road racing. I choose to stick with the Polaris recommended 5w50 viscosity for mine.
 
#22 · (Edited)
That's good stuff especially for the no catalyst crowd like us. :D

Has anyone done a VOA on the PS4-Plus oil?
Just curious what the Mo Zn & K #s are to compare with Rotella T5 & T6 5w40. I have an extra quart I'm not going to use that I might sacrifice for this purpose.

This is the PS4 not PS4-Plus. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1815679

If voa on the other fluids would give an idea of their pedigree I would guess better stuff could be found.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 4
 
#23 ·
LouisianaXCRacer thanks for posting this info up. I believe you are probably the same one who posted info on oil analysis on the raptor forum. I learned a lot from that thread. Its nice to see people talk about products when they have data to back it up.

Too many people believe that high priced products are simply gimmicks. Sometimes they are and sometimes you get what you pay for.

I have always been a change often proponent of oils, but I learned from your research that a good oil is well worth the money. I push my atv motors to the limits, so it's worth it to me. If I just cruised around checking on cattle I probably wouldn't fuss much.

Cheers to ya! My kind of guy
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the kind words easy, yes, I am the same guy. Switched off the Raptor 700 a few years back, made my way to the Scrambler near a year ago now. I am still anal about oil. My four race quads all use different oil based on the used analysis I receive and what fits that engine and the riders style. Different engines, different conditions and different riding style all require different oils to meet their needs for maximum power and longevity, analysis is the only way to do it correctly IMO.